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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old November 12th, 2010, 11:42   #1
Vipervnm
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Default Front wheel hub triple square bolt torque value

I have a Bentley manual and for the life of me cannot find where it addresses these bolts. I've replaced his entire suspension and cannot find this one value. Friend of mine nailed a pothole and the front driver's bearing has play. We are replacing it and this is the one piece of the puzzle that's missing. What torque value do the four triple square bolts require?

Thanks!

Because someone's going to say "SEARCH", I've been searching for about an hour and can't find this info. I found dozens of threads filled with people telling other people to search or that how-to's exist but I can't find them. If it were me I would have linked those people to the thread with the answer or not posted at all, but whatever. Now there a just dozens of useless threads clogging the search that everyone holds so dear. Please do your part to keep this from becoming one of them
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'06 Jetta TDI DSG "Diesel Thunder" RC1+ 151k mi
'00 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0 5-sp 157k mi
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0 5-sp 137k mi
'46 Willys CJ2a 2.2 L-head "Go Devil" 3-sp 64k mi
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Old November 12th, 2010, 15:00   #2
theinternot
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Are you talking about the axle bolt or the 4 bolts that hold on the wheel bearing hub assembly?

I found this for the axle bolt:

Here are the specs:
Hex: 180Nm+180deg
XZN (triple square): 70Nm+90deg

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=264539

post #3

------

4 axle hub assembly bolts:

Install:

1. Install wheel bearing/hub assembly. Torque the 4 triple square bolts to 80 ft lbs.
2. Put some grease inside the wheel hub teeth to help the axle slide in easily in to the hub.
3. Slide the axle into the hub. It may take some wiggling but it should slide in nice and easy once the teeth guides are matched up.

4. Install the axle bolt and tighten it enough to secure the axle but do not fully tighten.

5. Mount the brake calipers. Torque to 140 ft lbs
6. Mount the rotor. Torque bolt to 35 ft lbs.
7. Tighten axle bolt to about 120 ft lbs.
8. Install wheel. Lower car.
9. Tighten axle bolt to 148 ft lbs.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110256


Hopefully this will help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipervnm View Post
I have a Bentley manual and for the life of me cannot find where it addresses these bolts. I've replaced his entire suspension and cannot find this one value. Friend of mine nailed a pothole and the front driver's bearing has play. We are replacing it and this is the one piece of the puzzle that's missing. What torque value do the four triple square bolts require?

Thanks!

Because someone's going to say "SEARCH", I've been searching for about an hour and can't find this info. I found dozens of threads filled with people telling other people to search or that how-to's exist but I can't find them. If it were me I would have linked those people to the thread with the answer or not posted at all, but whatever. Now there a just dozens of useless threads clogging the search that everyone holds so dear. Please do your part to keep this from becoming one of them

Last edited by theinternot; November 12th, 2010 at 15:05.
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Old November 12th, 2010, 18:57   #3
Vipervnm
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You rock! Thanks so much! Still can't find it in Bentley. Must be in some other section I'm not expecting it to be in.
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'06 Jetta TDI DSG "Diesel Thunder" RC1+ 151k mi
'00 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0 5-sp 157k mi
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0 5-sp 137k mi
'46 Willys CJ2a 2.2 L-head "Go Devil" 3-sp 64k mi
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Old August 18th, 2014, 21:08   #4
milkyjoe01
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Can anyone shed some light as to the correct torque setting & procedure for tightening the front hub to axle BOLT (not a nut) on a 2004 Audi A3 2.0 TDi. It is a genuine Audi bolt, the 12 point, triple square bolt with no splines underneath the bolt flange, it's just smooth. I've read about so many different methods & torque settings it makes my head spin!! Some of the advice given was tighten to 200 Nm & immediately after tighten it an extra 90 deg. another opinion was tighten to 70 Nm & an extra 60 deg. & also slackening off the bolt then tightening a further 180 deg & even 1 that says torque to 200 Nm slacken by 90 deg. you then have to rotate the wheel 1 complete turn & then torque to 90Nm & then a further 90 deg.!!!! HELP!!!! Some of these answers came from the Bentley manual & some from an Audi tech!!! Can you give me your answers in newton metres please. Thanks.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 03:52   #5
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I just changed my axle. (on an 09 vw tdi)

literature I found was specific. Bentley and alldata DIY were consistent.

Axle bolts with hex nut get 200 NM plus 180 degrees.

Axle bolts with 12 point bolt get 70 NM plus 90 degrees

Marty from Raxles.com (who provided the replacement axle shaft assy) said that AUDI updated the spec for a new bolt/threadlock to 200 NM plus 90 degrees.

I had to stand on a 24 inch long breaker bar to get close to the 90 degrees after putting 200 NM on. a few weeks ago it was not anywhere close to that hard to get the quarter turn after 70 NM.

All that being said, I am not sure if the 04 is the same.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 03:58   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipervnm View Post
I have a Bentley manual and for the life of me cannot find where it addresses these bolts. I've replaced his entire suspension and cannot find this one value. Friend of mine nailed a pothole and the front driver's bearing has play. We are replacing it and this is the one piece of the puzzle that's missing. What torque value do the four triple square bolts require?

Thanks!

Because someone's going to say "SEARCH", I've been searching for about an hour and can't find this info. I found dozens of threads filled with people telling other people to search or that how-to's exist but I can't find them. If it were me I would have linked those people to the thread with the answer or not posted at all, but whatever. Now there a just dozens of useless threads clogging the search that everyone holds so dear. Please do your part to keep this from becoming one of them

my Bentley manual (Covers 2005 to 2009-10 Jetta) has a nice diagram on page 40-19 it has an exploded view of the Front Wheel Bearing Assembley

item 15 is the triple square bolt (4 each) that hold the hub/bearing to the wheel bearing housing.

spec is 70 NM (52 ft lb) plus 1/4 turn (90 degrees) always replace.

of course, the same diagram has torque spec for the axle bolt that does not match that provided in the axle part of the manual.
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Last edited by meerschm; August 19th, 2014 at 04:08.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 09:50   #7
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Its the centre bolt that holds the driveshaft to the hub that I'm after the correct torque procedure & settings not the 4 hub retaining bolts. Its quite a big 12 point triple square bolt bought from Audi just a week ago. If the difference between the figures I've read was small then I wouldn't be that concerned, I'd just average them out but when I'm hearing 1 setting of 300Nm & then someone else says 70Nm that is quite a difference!! So would you advise 70Nm & then a further 90' or the 200Nm & a further 180 'cuz that's quite a difference? Thanks on advance
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:02   #8
meerschm
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Joe, the Original poster was looking for specs for the four mounting bolts.

for the twelve point axle end bolt, everything I have seen says quarter turn.

I would think the quarter turn applies, not the half turn.

the only difference I have seen is in the initial torque. (which really gets the bolt to a predictable starting point), pulling the axle end into full engagement with the hub.

if you want to be careful, apply 70 NM, and mark the position of the bolt vs the hub, then see how far it moves to apply 200 NM.

Like I said before, last night I secured a new axle, and used the vendor-provided spec of 200 NM plus a quarter turn. I had no trouble getting a nice click from the torque wrench, however I did not really get the full additional quarter turn, even after standing on a two foot long breaker bar. ( I weigh about 170 pounds) There is no way I could have made another quarter turn.




here is more info on the axle bolt:

http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/th...threadID=42375
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Last edited by meerschm; August 19th, 2014 at 11:31.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 12:38   #9
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I can't stand this any longer. If the OP has a M16 bolt and it is 12 pt. triple square and it has a 8.8 stamped on it he will torque it to 70NM plus 1/4 turn. This is the spec. in the Bently for a 2005 to 2010 tdi VW. You have not said your car is the same and therefor I or meerschm can not guaranty it pertains to your 2004 2.0 tdi Audi.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 17:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkyjoe01 View Post
Can anyone shed some light as to the correct torque setting & procedure for tightening the front hub to axle BOLT (not a nut) on a 2004 Audi A3 2.0 TDi. It is a genuine Audi bolt, the 12 point, triple square bolt with no splines underneath the bolt flange, it's just smooth. I've read about so many different methods & torque settings it makes my head spin!! Some of the advice given was tighten to 200 Nm & immediately after tighten it an extra 90 deg. another opinion was tighten to 70 Nm & an extra 60 deg. & also slackening off the bolt then tightening a further 180 deg & even 1 that says torque to 200 Nm slacken by 90 deg. you then have to rotate the wheel 1 complete turn & then torque to 90Nm & then a further 90 deg.!!!! HELP!!!! Some of these answers came from the Bentley manual & some from an Audi tech!!! Can you give me your answers in newton metres please. Thanks.
You may want to read this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=403890
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Old August 19th, 2014, 20:32   #11
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I appreciate everyones help & advice but what i'm not sure about is the 2 different 12 point bolts, in the Bentley manual it mentions the hex bolt & the 12 point bolt but there are 2 different 12 point bolts, there's 1 with splines under the bolt flange & 1 that is smooth (which is what i have purchased from my local Audi main dealer). I've read that if there's splines on the underside then the torque value is 70Nm & then a further 90' but if there's no splines then it's 200Nm & a 180' turn. I can't understand why there's so much of a difference just because of the splines under the bolts flange. If there was only a 20Nm difference then i would just split the difference & go with that but we are talking about a difference of 130Nm & a 90' turn which i am struggling to find anyone who has manged to complete the full procedure so i'd like to know how Audi Techs go on with 200Nm & then 180' extra, gamma radiation anyone!! Any advice to help is very much appreciated.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 22:07   #12
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I have read everything on the subject including the link both meerschm and oceanrunner provided. I have to say i think IndigoBluewagon is wrong.

Both Bently and Erwin agree that the 12 pt is torqued to 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.

You will note the serrated is 12 pt. is torqued to the lower value even though it is a 10.9.

If you look at the picture provided in the link by oceanrunner the 12 pt 8.8 has locktite on the thread. The locktite would do the exact same thing as the 12 pt serrated so it also should be torqued to to the 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.

Now why is the torque on the 6 pt hex so high. I think it is because the separate washer deflexs once the torque reaches 200 NM (148 ft lbs.) plus 1/2 turn and the washer acts almost like a spring absorbing the 1/2 turn without the bolt reaching yield.

Since all bolts have the same modulus of elasticity they will all stretch the same for a given torque. You can not use the higher 6 pt torque on 8.8 grade bolts or they will go into yield. The 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn is about right at around 140 ft lbs ( from my calculations)for a grade 8.8 bolt to stay out of yield.

The only conclusion that makes sense is exactly what bently manual says. The 12 pt bolt whether serrated or not are torqued to 70 NM( 52 ft/lbs.) plus 1/4 turn.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 08:30   #13
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I have pink threadlock on my thread. I've just spoke to my local Audi main dealer who sold me the bolt & I was told that it is 200Nm in the air & a further 180' when on its wheels!!! So I asked about the other 12 point bolt with the splines & that is the 1 requiring 70Nm & then 90' cuz Audi changed the bolt to the none splines so the torque setting & procedure also changed to the higher value. Its so confusing cuz you make absolute sense but to me 200Nm & then 180' seems excessive but more & more people are saying its the higher value for my particular bolt, but at the same time 70Nm & a quarter turn doesn't seem enough for a bearing/hub bolt. I think I'm going to use 200Nm & then just a quarter turn cuz if I have a failure then I can take it to Audi & say that they gave me the setting cuz if I don't torque it enough then Audis advice won't be relevant. Thanks for all your help.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 17:42   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkyjoe01 View Post
I have pink threadlock on my thread. I've just spoke to my local Audi main dealer who sold me the bolt & I was told that it is 200Nm in the air & a further 180' when on its wheels!!! So I asked about the other 12 point bolt with the splines & that is the 1 requiring 70Nm & then 90' cuz Audi changed the bolt to the none splines so the torque setting & procedure also changed to the higher value. Its so confusing cuz you make absolute sense but to me 200Nm & then 180' seems excessive but more & more people are saying its the higher value for my particular bolt, but at the same time 70Nm & a quarter turn doesn't seem enough for a bearing/hub bolt. I think I'm going to use 200Nm & then just a quarter turn cuz if I have a failure then I can take it to Audi & say that they gave me the setting cuz if I don't torque it enough then Audis advice won't be relevant. Thanks for all your help.
I'm rather sceptical about this latest advice. The 2003 on A3 shares the same platform and Mechanicals as the Mk 5 Golf 2004-2009 and Jetta 2005 on, I have 2010 editions of the factory Elsawin/erwin manuals for the golf and Jetta and they both give exactly the same info
Hex axle centre bolt 200Nm +180deg
12 point centre bolt 70Nm +90deg
there is no mention of a revised 12 point with different tightening details at all

The four bearing/hub 12 points are also 70Nm+90deg

If it can wait a few days I have Audi manuals on another computer (different location) that I could cross-check
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Old August 20th, 2014, 18:24   #15
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Today I spoke to my local Audi main dealers & they confirm that the new 12 point bolt has no ribs on the underside of the bolt flange & has a new torque setting of 200Nm & then on the ground a further 180'!! The older 12 point bolt had ribs underneath the flange & apparently that did indeed require only 70Nm & then 90'! I received an email from Haynes publishers stating the same & that they have released a revised bulletin regarding as such that the older ribbed bolt is 70 & the newer un-ribbed is indeed 200Nm & the un-ribbed bolt is the only bolt Audi sell now! Extremely confusing!!
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