Upgraded Rods for BEW/PD

dieselpower04

dieselpower04

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Location
Outside Tampa, FL
TDI
2004 Golf GLS TDI (sold)
With the idea of installing the Colt Stage II cam in my BEW, I will more than likely be over the safe power level of stock rods (200 hp).

My current set up net me 186 whp, 367 ft-lbs. Since that dyno day, I have added an R32 MAF housing/airbox/PD150 TIP. The car feels noticeable better; i.e. quicker throttle response, more acceleration, less smoke.

It feels as though there is more power and torque there.

So with the Colt Cam, I will be over 200 whp.

What rods are available? Should I build a second block with rods/pistons/put the Colt cam in that?

Thoughts are greatly appreciated. I am no newb to powar :p
 
Whitbread

Whitbread

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
Pick up a set of Rostens. They drop in and will take everything you can throw at them. Franko6, Kerma, or Boraparts all stock them I believe.

Just pop your head and oil pan off, do the switcheroo, and put it back together. No pulling motor needed.

With IE rods there's a good chance you'll have to grind the block to make them fit. Not a big deal if the motor is out and apart, but not good if it's still in the car.
 
Farfromovin

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Taking the head and pan off isn't too difficult for a $600 life insurance policy on the motor either. Do people really just throw rods in or would it be wise to have them balanced with the pistons while they're out? Unnecessary?
 
glitdi

glitdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Location
West Coast Canada
TDI
Tdi asv motor in a mk3 golf, om642 in a wk jeep
Have you upgraded the head studs?
I thought that was the thing that is next to protect your investment.
I thought you could just the 200 hp mark with the stock bottom end?
 
dieselpower04

dieselpower04

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Location
Outside Tampa, FL
TDI
2004 Golf GLS TDI (sold)
Farfromovin said:
Taking the head and pan off isn't too difficult for a $600 life insurance policy on the motor either. Do people really just throw rods in or would it be wise to have them balanced with the pistons while they're out? Unnecessary?
Click to expand...
That's what I am trying to see. I guess if I want more life out of the engine the rods should help. I don't know if I should just build a second motor...ARL bottom end, with Rosten rods...OC.TDI style? 2.0L?

glitdi said:
Have you upgraded the head studs?
I thought that was the thing that is next to protect your investment.
I thought you could just the 200 hp mark with the stock bottom end?
Click to expand...
I have stock head bolts in now. The rods would be a preventative measure and allow more power in the future. I don't know how long the 200+ whp would last with stock rods. Even if it is just 205 whp :eek:
 
Farfromovin

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
My guess is there are TONS of 220-240bhp PD's in EU running stock rods... You don't have to go all out just to replace rods. I'd prefer to think of upgrading rods like protecting your block :)
 
Bobby Singh

Bobby Singh

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
England,Middlesex
TDI
Audi 3.0 TDI
Phil your assuming the 240hp figure are real lol the truth when you put these cars on an accurate rolling road they produce around 215hp.
Just for ref Im at around 260hp on a stock ARL
 
A

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Bobby Singh said:
Phil your assuming the 240hp figure are real lol the truth when you put these cars on an accurate rolling road they produce around 215hp.
Just for ref Im at around 260hp on a stock ARL
Click to expand...
Yeah, i allways thought uk dyno's are over optimistic ! Had a pd 130 skoda superb with a PD 150 turbo, injectors, decated, BMW 530 intercooler and aligator remap and it only mustered 178Bhp on a Maha dyno. On a chipped uk rolling road it had 253 !!!
 
H

hudu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
1.9 tdi passat -96
And you assume that we believ your hp-numbers after that statement Bobby :D
 
Farfromovin

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Bobby Singh said:
Phil your assuming the 240hp figure are real lol the truth when you put these cars on an accurate rolling road they produce around 215hp.
Just for ref Im at around 260hp on a stock ARL
Click to expand...
So, you think ARL rods are good for 250whp? That's a ballpark where I hope to land this year. I kinda think a $600 insurance policy by Rosten to protect my block isn't such a bad idea. It'll cost me much more than $600 to get another ARL block over here.
 
Bobby Singh

Bobby Singh

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
England,Middlesex
TDI
Audi 3.0 TDI
I can only tell you @ 225whp they are fine...250whp is something i have no experience of, but your right if the block is stripped you might aswell stick some rods in.
 
M

mrspindlelegs

Active member
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Location
Shelbyville, IN
TDI
Golf TDI, 2004, Reflex Silver
Farfromovin said:
Taking the head and pan off isn't too difficult for a $600 life insurance policy on the motor either. Do people really just throw rods in or would it be wise to have them balanced with the pistons while they're out? Unnecessary?
Click to expand...
When replacing anything that is part of the core internals (pistons, wrist pins, connecting rods, and crankshaft), always rebalance the motor. You are just asking for problems if you skip this step. Anybody who says differently better produce a detailed study proving that rebalancing is unnecessary before I will ever even consider skipping that step. The only exception is if the new parts weigh exactly the same and have the same weight distribution as the parts they are replacing.
 
Whitbread

Whitbread

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
mrspindlelegs said:
When replacing anything that is part of the core internals (pistons, wrist pins, connecting rods, and crankshaft), always rebalance the motor. You are just asking for problems if you skip this step. Anybody who says differently better produce a detailed study proving that rebalancing is unnecessary before I will ever even consider skipping that step. The only exception is if the new parts weigh exactly the same and have the same weight distribution as the parts they are replacing.
Click to expand...
Ask any race engine shop, when balancing an inline engine, only the crankshaft, harmonic balancer (as long as it isn't a fluidampr), and the flywheel are balanced. No bobweights. The rods, pistons, and wristpins are all weighed and adjusted to be the same.

As long as all the new reciprocating components are weight matched to each other, you're good to go. Only in a V engine does the crank need to come out and be rebalanced with piston/rod change.
 
Farfromovin

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Whitbread said:
Ask any race engine shop, when balancing an inline engine, only the crankshaft, harmonic balancer (as long as it isn't a fluidampr), and the flywheel are balanced. No bobweights. The rods, pistons, and wristpins are all weighed and adjusted to be the same.

As long as all the new reciprocating components are weight matched to each other, you're good to go. Only in a V engine does the crank need to come out and be rebalanced with piston/rod change.
Click to expand...
Good info here! Thanks Matt.
 
delvi__acevedo

delvi__acevedo

Mod'aholic
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Milford, PA ,USA
TDI
Getta GLS,2001,silver
dieselpower04 said:
Delvi do you have rods? I was told that it was required for a higher tune than mine.
Click to expand...
Nah, but I have to do a head gasket and colt cam really soon and I'm thinking about it.

Waiting on the Cam to come back from Colt to do the job, ARL head bolts are going in.
 
Last edited:
dieselpower04

dieselpower04

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Location
Outside Tampa, FL
TDI
2004 Golf GLS TDI (sold)
delvi__acevedo said:
Nah, but I have to do a head gasket and colt cam really soon and I'm thinking about it.

Waiting on the Cam to come back from Colt to do the job, ARL head bolts are going in.
Click to expand...

I have a Colt cam waiting for me...I just have to pay Kook for it! I was wondering about doing head bolts at the same time. Are the ARL ones that much better than BEW? What about Raceware?
 
delvi__acevedo

delvi__acevedo

Mod'aholic
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Milford, PA ,USA
TDI
Getta GLS,2001,silver
dieselpower04 said:
I have a Colt cam waiting for me...I just have to pay Kook for it! I was wondering about doing head bolts at the same time. Are the ARL ones that much better than BEW? What about Raceware?
Click to expand...
You are lucky, I paid USPS ~$70 for 3 day shipping to Canada and it took 11 days to get there:mad: so that really slow me down.

The ARL bolts are much better than stock is a better grade steel, I don't know anything about raceware.
 
dieselpower04

dieselpower04

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Location
Outside Tampa, FL
TDI
2004 Golf GLS TDI (sold)
delvi__acevedo said:
You are lucky, I paid USPS ~$70 for 3 day shipping to Canada and it took 11 days to get there:mad: so that really slow me down.

The ARL bolts are much better than stock is a better grade steel, I don't know anything about raceware.
Click to expand...

Interesting. This damn cam swap isn't cheap! I'm gunna get a new TB put on as well, even though there is less than 30k on the current one!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top