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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old August 15th, 2010, 05:43   #1
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Default USA vs. European Emissions Standards?

I'm just curious. You would think that since Europeans have a higher standard of emissions on their vehicles, but a few people have told me that we actually have higher standards than Europe in terms of diesel emissions. The reason I ask is that although I love my TDI, when I get married, we're going to need a second car, and she was thinking Ford Fiesta. I was wondering if I grey-imported a Ford Fiesta Diesel from the UK, if it would even pass emissions standards here, before I even look further into it.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 05:47   #2
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I was wondering if I grey-imported a Ford Fiesta Diesel from the UK, if it would even pass emissions standards here, before I even look further into it.
Not only will it not meet emissions, there's an arm's length list of other reasons you won't be able to import it
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Old August 15th, 2010, 06:53   #3
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Originally Posted by efb91 View Post
I'm just curious. You would think that since Europeans have a higher standard of emissions on their vehicles, but a few people have told me that we actually have higher standards than Europe in terms of diesel emissions. The reason I ask is that although I love my TDI, when I get married, we're going to need a second car, and she was thinking Ford Fiesta. I was wondering if I grey-imported a Ford Fiesta Diesel from the UK, if it would even pass emissions standards here, before I even look further into it.

Europe actually has effectively tougher emissions standards then the US. That said, there is an arms length of reasons why you cannot import that vehicle into the US.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 08:01   #4
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Originally Posted by thebigarniedog View Post
Europe actually has effectively tougher emissions standards then the US. That said, there is an arms length of reasons why you cannot import that vehicle into the US.
yes , but they (as a general rule) are not enforced

just take a look at our UK members, they delete everything (cat, dpf, egr, vent the ccv to the surface) and EASILY PASS the MOT smog test

the UK MOT smog test effectively measures diesel emissions at a 1970 pollution standard, pathetic!!

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm

the euro V standards are very close to tier 2 bin5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...sion_standards
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Old August 15th, 2010, 09:13   #5
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I'm confused....a simple yes or no would help...do the european spec cars/trucks have emissions standards that are stronger/higher than U.S. emissions standards?
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Old August 15th, 2010, 09:43   #6
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You might think that it might be a simple yes or no answer. The over all issue is SO opaque, that the real truth is not surprisingly... opaque.

Here is a non sound bite able example. The majority of folks KNOW RUG to PUG is CLEANER than ULSD !!!!!! PERIOD ! EOS (end of story)

Even some RUG to PUG users know that the current ULSD standard is @15 ppm sulfur. Nominally it is delivered @ 5-7 ppm sulfur.There are HUGE HUGE fines if fuel is delivered higher than 15 ppm, ergo they have refined the ULSD product to come 53% to 67% below (even CLEANER) to avoid any issues. As a comparo "bio diesel" is normally under 1 ppm sulfur.

On the other hand, most RUG TO PUG users don't even know what the RUG to PUG standards ARE??? (Truthfully, I counted my self in that population, untill a few years ago. Not that any one cares nor does it continue to really make a difference)

RUG to PUG standards are @ 30 ppm sulfur. With off line fee mitigation, RUG to PUG can be delivered @ the pump as high as 90 ppm sulfur or by LAW RUG to PUG can be delivered MUCH DIRTIER !!!! 2 x to 18 times dirtier !!?? Keep in mind, this does not take into account that RUG to PUG users (like models) use anywhere from 20-40% more of the ...dirtier fuel!!???

Yet RUG to PUG users truly believe RUG to PUG is CLEANER !!! While the facts can be considered pretty obvious, I will let folks draw their own conclusions. As a result the cleaner fuel is "restricted" while the dirtier fuel is allowed to be used. The percentage of passenger vehicles is overwhelmingly HUGE (50 times greater ) . 98% of US passenger vehicles are RUG to PUG. Estimates are 9% require PUG. 2% are "diesels" and one half of one percent are diesel ... passenger cars. So on an operative level, we follow a burning more; yields less pollution paradigm. The corollary is we burn more to save the planet.

Last edited by ruking; August 15th, 2010 at 14:29.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 09:58   #7
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No expert here, but as I understand it EURO vs US emissions standards cannot be viewed as one being more strict than the other. They are different. Emissions regs cover several pollutants.. HC, CO, CO2, NOx, Particulate, etc. And different places have different limits and different timetables for enforcement of limits. And the limits change over time. And different limits apply to different classes of vehicles.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 11:54   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rme View Post

do the european spec cars/trucks have emissions standards that are stronger/higher than U.S. emissions standards?

At this moment, the USA diesel regs are the strictest in the world and that's the reason the exhaust aftertreatment on cars sold here is unique to the USA/Can
I don't know about the gassers, Euro vs. NAmerica.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 12:08   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efb91 View Post
I'm just curious. You would think that since Europeans have a higher standard of emissions on their vehicles, but a few people have told me that we actually have higher standards than Europe in terms of diesel emissions. The reason I ask is that although I love my TDI, when I get married, we're going to need a second car, and she was thinking Ford Fiesta. I was wondering if I grey-imported a Ford Fiesta Diesel from the UK, if it would even pass emissions standards here, before I even look further into it.
It might be possible to bring over the Fiesta, but plan on spending tens of thousands of dollars have it modified for emissions and saftey, and there's the risk it might not be possible no matter how much money you throw at it.

If it's a RHD model it's almost guaranteed that it will not be importable unless crash testing is performed.

You can go to the NHSTA, US customs, and EPA websites and research what has to be done.

The USA emission standards are a bit different than European standards and don't directly correlate to each other, the big difficulty for diesel engines are the nitrous oxide emissions hence all the exhaust treatment technologies.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 12:39   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efb91 View Post
I'm just curious. You would think that since Europeans have a higher standard of emissions on their vehicles, but a few people have told me that we actually have higher standards than Europe in terms of diesel emissions. The reason I ask is that although I love my TDI, when I get married, we're going to need a second car, and she was thinking Ford Fiesta. I was wondering if I grey-imported a Ford Fiesta Diesel from the UK, if it would even pass emissions standards here, before I even look further into it.
Definitely not from UK, they drive on the wrong side of the road! Unless you want to use it as US mail vehicle or do the steering swap.

We have the tightest emissions stds but create the highest pollution per person. 4% of world population vs 20% of the CO2 world emissions. The US std. artificially restricts NOx emissions over CO2 to prevent diesels from coming here. Europeans restrict total C02 which reduces total green house. It appears Obama or the TDI club don't seem to be able to do anything about it. Wanna organize a March on Washington?
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Old August 15th, 2010, 13:22   #11
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Originally Posted by eddie_1 View Post
The US std. artificially restricts NOx emissions over CO2 to prevent diesels from coming here. Europeans restrict total C02 which reduces total green house. It appears Obama or the TDI club don't seem to be able to do anything about it. Wanna organize a March on Washington?
Diesels get better fuel economy, which means big oil can't sell as much fuel, hence diesels are looked on with disdain.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 13:26   #12
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Diesels get better fuel economy, which means big oil can't sell as much fuel, hence diesels are looked on with disdain.
and a vehicle that uses less fuel emits less pollutants, requires less fuel to be processed and delivered. Thus a vehicle that gets 45 mpg using diesel is a true Green vehicle compared with a so called ULEV that gets 17mpg. You have to measure the complete equation not just parts of it like is done in the US.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 14:52   #13
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and a vehicle that uses less fuel emits less pollutants, requires less fuel to be processed and delivered. Thus a vehicle that gets 45 mpg using diesel is a true Green vehicle compared with a so called ULEV that gets 17mpg. You have to measure the complete equation not just parts of it like is done in the US.
agreed, this is why UK cars have a C02 rating
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Old August 15th, 2010, 16:11   #14
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EU is actually more restrictive with respect to CO and PM emissions, less restrictive with respect to NOx. The test cycles are not identical (FTP75 for the U.S., NEDC for Europe), although based on a study by CARB, there do not appear to be any significant differences resulting from the two test cycles.

Based on the EU certified emissions for the 2010 Euro 5 Fiesta 1.6 liter Duratorq, the NOx emissions would be about 0.25 g/mi (155 mg/km - http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/sea...s.asp?id=25511 ) which would exceed Bin 8 requirements for NOx (0.20 g/mi). All other emissions would be well below Bin 8, and even below Bin 5.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 18:55   #15
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IMO there is a clear reason the US EPA has refuted the expansion of the diesel fleet in the US. It would simply reduce the amount od oil we consume 10 fold. Prior to the draconian after treatment protocols diesel engine manufacturers had made tremendous achievments in performance and efficiency. The simple fact alone the Caterpillar was forced from the OH truck engine market due to an enormous investment made for R+D which never sold a whole lot, proves the assinine methodology of the US EPA who rubber stamps whatever CARB dreams up, no we all know illicit drug use is rampant in CA right? For the last few years I have tried to compare USEPA/CARB with CAFE and its hard to figure. One thing I know is the EPA has ruined the OH diesel market in America period!
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