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Old July 25th, 2010, 15:59   #1
ldgratetdi
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Alabama
Fuel Economy: 51/48/35
Default 2001 TDI Jetta Injector Pump Bad?

OK, Friday I go to lunch, and it takes several seconds to get my 2001 5 speed with 260K miles started. She finally starts. I go to leave to go home, same thing. On the way home she seems a bit sluggish but nothing else unusual. When I get home I break out the Vag Com and I find: 17656 - Start of Injection Timing Regulation: Control Deviation. I check the timing and it is down around 10. I left it at 50 when I changed the timing belt at around 230K miles. Checked the bolts on the pump, nothing has slipped, now I am getting concerned. So I loosten the bolts and get the timing back at 50. Now it is even harder to start, and more sluggish. I can't seem to figure out how to post the trend, but I take it for a ride with group 4 up, and the actual timing is not following the request.

The fuel temp also seems a bit high, but I am guessing that wouldn't keep the pump from adjusting at all. Power is now off significanly. Anything else I ought to check before I try to find a rebuilt pump?
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Old July 25th, 2010, 17:43   #2
ldgratetdi
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Location: Alabama
Fuel Economy: 51/48/35
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Found the notes on checking the case pressure relief valve, mine had moved about 2mm, I had hoped this might be it, no avial. I had to prime it to get it to restart, but still no luck. Any thoughs would be appreciated.
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 20:15   #3
ldgratetdi
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Status update, spent a bunch of time reading on the site. After bumping in the pump, it turns out things are somewhat better, but not great. When warm, it is a bit hard to start, and the timing is still consistently not correct. I have read about the seal change procedure, but since this appears to be a timing problem I am concerned if that will do any good. It is still drivable, fuel economy is terrible (she has drank a quarter tank in 250 miles). Just wondering if you have any thoughs on replacing the seals vs installing a rebuild IP. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 21:13   #4
runonbeer
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Fuel Economy: amazing/excellent/still pretty good
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How about the fuel filter? And your last fill-up?
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 11:55   #5
ldgratetdi
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Fuel Economy: 51/48/35
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Filter has about 20k on it, but I can easly pull fuel up into the pump using a mity-vac. I don't think it's a supply issue. It will run wide open throttle for long periods of time. As for the fuel, would that cause the injection timing to not follow the desired? It stays about 2degrees off at idle, and gets worse when the engine stutters or if you accellerate. Power is definitely off.

There doesn't appear to be any leaks, so I am assuming replacing seals wouldn't help anything. My concern is taking here down for a few days while I send it off to DFIS vs trying to find a new/rebuilt IP somewhere if all that is bad are the seals.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 12:06   #6
BobnOH
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: central Ohio
Fuel Economy: 50/45/35
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17656/P1248/004680 - Start of Injection Timing Regulation: Control Deviation

Possible Symptoms

  • Loss of Power at high Engine Speeds
  • Engine difficult to Start
Possible Causes

  • Start of Injection Timing Regulation not OK
  • Injection Pump Control Range blocked/dirty (e.g. by Metal Particles)
  • Engine has stalled / ran out of Fuel recently
  • Wiring/Connectors from/to Injection Valve (N108) faulty
Possible Solutions

  • Check/Adjust Injection Start
  • Check Fuel Supply
  • Check/Replace Fuse(s)
  • Check/Repair Wiring/Connectors from/to Injection Valve (N108)
Special Notes

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Old March 15th, 2013, 13:50   #7
Zampano77
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hilton NY
TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
Fuel Economy: 45
Default ADVICE NEEDED: 2001 TDI ALH will not start any longer, just coughs every 3 seconds,

Adding to this thread. My 2001 TDI was having problems restarting after shutdown and the engine is up to operating temp. If you stop the engine, run into the store and try to restart it coughs once then spins and spins but no combustion. It did this for a couple of days and then it would not start even cold. Had to get to school so gave it a single sniff of starting fluid and she started and ran fine into school but after stopping the engine to drop off some books, she would not restart and will not start cold now, just coughs like she wants to start at the beginning but then just turns over with a few little coughs, very little, but will not run. Have made sure the fuel return is not leaking air, bled and primed the system via cracking the injectors at the head and all squirt fuel out well but still no start.

Took off valve cover, rechecked crank/ cam/ IP timing using TDIC forum stickyand all is lined up. TB replaced at 100K and looks good, new fuel filter. Not sure what to do, any ideas appreciated. Car has 160,000 miles with no real problems other than I had to drill the check valve out this winter as it would stall/ die while driving and not restart, the drilled check valve seemed to solve that. No VAGCOM codes other than faulty glowplug ( which has been there for years) and a ABS sensor.

If you have ideas, I am all ears and hands.

Thanks,

Johnny
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Old March 15th, 2013, 17:43   #8
nukejet
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My did the same thing today but I had a guy look at it and he read a code that lead him to the fuel injection pump metering. He said he has ran into this before and will verify with the pump re-builder that they address this issue before he buys mine. I can find out the code on Monday to let you know more.

At first I had the symptoms of a slipping clutch but that was just the engine going into limp mode so no damage is done due to improper fuel delivery. My check engine light never came on also.

The Mechanic that gave me this diagnosis so far seems very competent after another mechanic told me that it was simply a turbo that was not working and I needed to go elsewhere.

Any questions let me know,
Reid

Last edited by nukejet; March 15th, 2013 at 17:51. Reason: added info
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Old March 15th, 2013, 18:51   #9
dogdots
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zampano77 View Post
Adding to this thread. My 2001 TDI was having problems restarting after shutdown and the engine is up to operating temp. If you stop the engine, run into the store and try to restart it coughs once then spins and spins but no combustion. It did this for a couple of days and then it would not start even cold. Had to get to school so gave it a single sniff of starting fluid and she started and ran fine into school but after stopping the engine to drop off some books, she would not restart and will not start cold now, just coughs like she wants to start at the beginning but then just turns over with a few little coughs, very little, but will not run. Have made sure the fuel return is not leaking air, bled and primed the system via cracking the injectors at the head and all squirt fuel out well but still no start.

Took off valve cover, rechecked crank/ cam/ IP timing using TDIC forum stickyand all is lined up. TB replaced at 100K and looks good, new fuel filter. Not sure what to do, any ideas appreciated. Car has 160,000 miles with no real problems other than I had to drill the check valve out this winter as it would stall/ die while driving and not restart, the drilled check valve seemed to solve that. No VAGCOM codes other than faulty glowplug ( which has been there for years) and a ABS sensor.

If you have ideas, I am all ears and hands.

Thanks,

Johnny
Is the ASV sticking closed?
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Old March 15th, 2013, 19:06   #10
akafred
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my car was only running for 2-3 seconds it was the crank speed sensor, you can check for rpm in vcds while cranking, no rpm, probably sensor, also asv will cause this and imobolizer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zampano77 View Post
Adding to this thread. My 2001 TDI was having problems restarting after shutdown and the engine is up to operating temp. If you stop the engine, run into the store and try to restart it coughs once then spins and spins but no combustion. It did this for a couple of days and then it would not start even cold. Had to get to school so gave it a single sniff of starting fluid and she started and ran fine into school but after stopping the engine to drop off some books, she would not restart and will not start cold now, just coughs like she wants to start at the beginning but then just turns over with a few little coughs, very little, but will not run. Have made sure the fuel return is not leaking air, bled and primed the system via cracking the injectors at the head and all squirt fuel out well but still no start.

Took off valve cover, rechecked crank/ cam/ IP timing using TDIC forum stickyand all is lined up. TB replaced at 100K and looks good, new fuel filter. Not sure what to do, any ideas appreciated. Car has 160,000 miles with no real problems other than I had to drill the check valve out this winter as it would stall/ die while driving and not restart, the drilled check valve seemed to solve that. No VAGCOM codes other than faulty glowplug ( which has been there for years) and a ABS sensor.

If you have ideas, I am all ears and hands.

Thanks,

Johnny
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Old March 15th, 2013, 19:30   #11
Zampano77
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TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
Fuel Economy: 45
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Guys,

Thanks Nukejet, Dogdots, Akafred for the input, will check ASV, crank sensor and immobilizer tomorrow. Nukejet, I will let you know if I need your solution if these do not work.


Thanks again,

Johnny
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Old March 16th, 2013, 17:45   #12
79_Limited
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Location: Atlanta, GA
TDI(s): 2003 Jetta
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Just throwing this out there...my injection pump "failed" recently. Dealer wanted $2k + for a new pump. I thought that was crazy.

Had it towed to my local guru. $200 and new pump seals it runs like a champ.

This may not be your problem but at least rule it out.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 18:07   #13
Zampano77
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TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
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Default Really late final reply

It was air getting into the system prior the IP. Replaces all soft lines, problem solved.
Thanks all.
Johnny
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