www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 28th, 2010, 14:29   #31
dvst8r
Veteran Member
 
dvst8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Airdrie, AB
TDI(s): '03 Wagon
Default

Looks like you got the triples backwards. Should have a single secondary, with twin parallel primaries. As now you have a secondary that is ruffly as big as a GT2859 ~ 30lbs/min feeding a Turbo that only moves ~50lbs/min and has a super tight exhaust housing at that.

From what I see is that it is going to be a laggy setup, that doesn't have a ton of top end potential. Now let me quantify that by saying, last I checked I can only recall a handful of people even being able to use that 30lbs/min that the secondary provides.

In short I think your secondary is too big, and too close in size to your primary. An HE351VE would have been a better choice in primary, or an HX40-16, or an H2E ect... However all of those setups are for 330whp+ on just #2.

There is a very good reason to run triples other then packaging and cost, but this setup does not allow you to benefit from it.

I am not going to spoon feed anyone one on this, but the secondary sizing and idea is good for something.
__________________
Cetane Racing
- Where a tdi turbo upgrade isn't big unless that "56" referrers to the inducer size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmark
again, not a topic for this forum...take it to "people who give a ****" forum.....the only numbers hear we care about are hp/ftlbs...
dvst8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 15:19   #32
gsx700whp
Veteran Member
 
gsx700whp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: fort worth TX USA
Default

as for the intercooler here are some pics in my photos of the one I am about to put on .... IF THIS IS NOT BIG ENOUGH AND STRONG ENOUGH I QUIT !!!!!! and yes its going to fit just like the turbos did that everyone said wouldnt . where is the spirit of faith ? slowly but surely I have been raising boost to the point that im having to put turnbuckles on all the boost lines that already have T-bolt clamps that wont hold the pipes together . and its doing that at around 2500RPM with EGT's around 550 pre turbo pyro for all the non believers ....

no plastic anywhere except the stock IC tanks , the intake is in the pics , thats why I put the IC in the pics so you could kinda follow the plumbing , all 23.5ft of it

Last edited by gsx700whp; April 28th, 2010 at 15:25.
gsx700whp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 15:24   #33
gsx700whp
Veteran Member
 
gsx700whp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: fort worth TX USA
Default

as a matter of fact I also build turbojet engines ! you can see my latest at youtube under the title

T18 A83

dont forget the space between the 8 and the A

that thing feels like its gona turn my garage inside out when its running !
the comp inducer is 4.25in dia

and thumbs up to this guy . I saw his car right after he got it done , extremely nice work , one of the best installs I have seen. and the fact that he did it to a brand new car with a 2 yr inspection sticker was a nice touch....

Quote:
Originally Posted by glitdi
While you're at it!
Why don't you put one of these in!
contact this guy he should be able to help you with the install and tuning.
http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/

Last edited by gsx700whp; April 28th, 2010 at 15:27.
gsx700whp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 15:35   #34
gsx700whp
Veteran Member
 
gsx700whp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: fort worth TX USA
Default

I guess you cant tell how its plumbed in the pics , believe me its right . I do however agree with you on the later model holset but I am working on a non existant budget and these are the ones I had laying around I have less than $xxxxxin this whole project including the car -labor that I have in it , which I normally charge $50/hr , I dare not ring up my time on it LOL
I am not running alcohol for my main fuel and Im not pulling a sled (which I have done) This set up is right for what im doing , I use to R&D for a living , but I am always open to hear what anyone has to say , because no one knows everything , we all know just a little bit about a little bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
Looks like you got the triples backwards. Should have a single secondary, with twin parallel primaries. As now you have a secondary that is ruffly as big as a GT2859 ~ 30lbs/min feeding a Turbo that only moves ~50lbs/min and has a super tight exhaust housing at that.

From what I see is that it is going to be a laggy setup, that doesn't have a ton of top end potential. Now let me quantify that by saying, last I checked I can only recall a handful of people even being able to use that 30lbs/min that the secondary provides.

In short I think your secondary is too big, and too close in size to your primary. An HE351VE would have been a better choice in primary, or an HX40-16, or an H2E ect... However all of those setups are for 330whp+ on just #2.

There is a very good reason to run triples other then packaging and cost, but this setup does not allow you to benefit from it.

I am not going to spoon feed anyone one on this, but the secondary sizing and idea is good for something.

Last edited by gsx700whp; April 29th, 2010 at 11:53.
gsx700whp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 15:41   #35
Got Bearings?
Veteran Member
 
Got Bearings?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SoCal
Fuel Economy: 36 / 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manual_tranny
Sorry, didn't mean to pick on the intercooler.... I just can't believe how complicated this setup is... If this is a daily driver, I am even more confused. This setup is unlikely to be reliable.
Why not sell your 3 turbos and buy one of these?
http://tdtuning.com/store/index.php?...DCTurbosystem1
Sometimes, people like to do something different.... JUST BECAUSE! Are there better ways to do it? Sure... but if you have the ability to do something different, why not?

Case in point: 8 turbos on a 57 Chevy. Practical? No. Cool? YUP!



http://www.lateral-g.org/sandlin/
__________________
The New Commuter Car: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 556 HP, 6.2L Supercharged V-8, 6 speed manual
The Old Commuter Car: 01 Golf GLS TDI WRECKED AND GONE!
The Slow Car: 95 Impala SS 383, 6 speed, 391HP , 440TQ
Looking for Battery Cables, better & cheaper than OEM? Click here for info
Got Bearings? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 16:04   #36
dvst8r
Veteran Member
 
dvst8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Airdrie, AB
TDI(s): '03 Wagon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsx700whp
I guess you cant tell how its plumbed in the pics , believe me its right . I do however agree with you on the later model holset but I am working on a non existant budget and these are the ones I had laying around I have less than $2500 in this whole project including the car -labor that I have in it , which I normally charge $50/hr , I dare not ring up my time on it LOL
I build on average 3 sets of twins / triples a month. Here is a set I just finished that Has a GT3782R ball bearing turbo over a GT4202R ball bearing turbo with a tial V-band exhaust housing. It supports 700hp on #2 and lights sooner then stock and sees 50psi+ by 2000rpm. That is the better part of $4000 in just turbo's before fittings, piping, powder coating, welding, installing ect... You have to have a bit of an idea and a reputation of what you are doing before someone just forks over the better part of $10K
(ignore the mess of clamps on the cold pipe to the intercooler, it was just after midnight at that point, and obviously the parts store was closed. We fabbed up something more suitable in the morning, just wanted to hear it run that night.

Your VNT-15's are plumbed in parallel which in essence make them a big single, and are being sequenced with the HY35. The way you have them plumed will work, but it is not the way to make the best use of triples.
Secondaries are small charges to begin with and as such don't really suffer in the inertia aspect of what makes triples great.
__________________
Cetane Racing
- Where a tdi turbo upgrade isn't big unless that "56" referrers to the inducer size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmark
again, not a topic for this forum...take it to "people who give a ****" forum.....the only numbers hear we care about are hp/ftlbs...
dvst8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 18:20   #37
Chunkerz
Veteran Member
 
Chunkerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MD
TDI(s): '99.5 Golf
Default

Damn, in this picture you're standing on a tire. That's some good balance you have, especially in boots!
Chunkerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 18:28   #38
oldpoopie
 
oldpoopie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Default

LOL. Looks like a forklift tire or the like. Probably stil attached to the vechicle.
__________________
Pacific Northwest TRUSTED TDIClub mechanic

Email me, justgrow@gmail.com
oldpoopie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 18:32   #39
TDIJetta99
Veteran Member
 
TDIJetta99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Port Jervis, New York, USA
Fuel Economy: low 38, high 61, avg 48
Default

I'm going to take a guess at that tire is attached to something, LOL... If not, then hat's off to you and your balance..
__________________
Taking on some work here and there.. Contact me for your needs.. Can do emissions testing friendly ALH tunes on most setups, even swaps. best way to contact is text or email tdijetta99@gmail.com
TDIJetta99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 18:48   #40
manual_tranny
Smyth Performance- Intern
 
manual_tranny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Bedford, MA
Fuel Economy: Is just one piece of the puzzle that is our bottomless appetite for oil. Cars donít have to be consumable. Instead of throwing them away, we can rebuild them, better. We have the technology.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Bearings?
Sometimes, people like to do something different.... JUST BECAUSE! Are there better ways to do it? Sure... but if you have the ability to do something different, why not?
Case in point: 8 turbos on a 57 Chevy. Practical? No. Cool? YUP!
http://www.lateral-g.org/sandlin/
Point = Taken. I do not argue 3 turbos on an ALH is uncool. It's amazing!! My gut reaction, however, is.. I hope he's got a good clutch!
manual_tranny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 18:56   #41
FlashT
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LA
Cool Re: ALH with 3 turbos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsx700whp:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...65130&cat=4815
Well, I guess seeing is believing...and if you can fit all that under the hood of a beetle...Houdini would be proud.

A Dyno would be totally awsome - once you put it all back in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manual tranny:
Hey, a fellow climber! I read a lot of your link, very cool!

"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games" Fantastic.

Sorry for thread hijack. Oh wait, three turbos and a stock intercooler. I'm not that sorry.
I'm gald you like it. That is my favorite quote by Hemingway, and one that I feel is very true.

And while I enjoy climbing, I have yet to climb any real mountains. I am pretty much limited to whatever is available in Utah, Texas, or Arizona, since I have family there.


All the Best
__________________
Thinking of lowering? Read This first.
FlashT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 19:46   #42
gsx700whp
Veteran Member
 
gsx700whp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: fort worth TX USA
Default

now thats sweet !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Bearings?
Sometimes, people like to do something different.... JUST BECAUSE! Are there better ways to do it? Sure... but if you have the ability to do something different, why not?

Case in point: 8 turbos on a 57 Chevy. Practical? No. Cool? YUP!



http://www.lateral-g.org/sandlin/
gsx700whp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 20:00   #43
gsx700whp
Veteran Member
 
gsx700whp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: fort worth TX USA
Default

I have 2 of those I have recently built for dodge owners too, shall I post the pics too ? dont get me wrong im not trying to compete or be a smart ass (well maybe a little) but the point is no one has done it to a tdi beetle before me and this thing is a madman right out of the hole ! its making 32psi by 2500 now and still have not cut it loose to see what it will really do. this little thing is really supprising me at this point. and yes I DO HAVE THE PAPERS IN THE MAIL ON MY SET UP !!! since your a fabricator you know what I mean by that (not a threat) just sayn you have your deal , let me have mine

oh and I am about to do another deal on a QSB thats different would be willing to discuss the details with you at my yahoo email its the same as my user name here . I have a long history with the B series engines , use to rebuild them all the time and thats how I got hooked up with ole' Doc...







Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
I build on average 3 sets of twins / triples a month. Here is a set I just finished that Has a GT3782R ball bearing turbo over a GT4202R ball bearing turbo with a tial V-band exhaust housing. It supports 700hp on #2 and lights sooner then stock and sees 50psi+ by 2000rpm. That is the better part of $4000 in just turbo's before fittings, piping, powder coating, welding, installing ect... You have to have a bit of an idea and a reputation of what you are doing before someone just forks over the better part of $10K
(ignore the mess of clamps on the cold pipe to the intercooler, it was just after midnight at that point, and obviously the parts store was closed. We fabbed up something more suitable in the morning, just wanted to hear it run that night.

Your VNT-15's are plumbed in parallel which in essence make them a big single, and are being sequenced with the HY35. The way you have them plumed will work, but it is not the way to make the best use of triples.
Secondaries are small charges to begin with and as such don't really suffer in the inertia aspect of what makes triples great.
gsx700whp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 20:24   #44
gsx700whp
Veteran Member
 
gsx700whp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: fort worth TX USA
Default

just got off the phone with my boy over at Dr. Performance and set up for dyno pulls in the next few days , I just hope I dont explode the whole damn car whilst standing still ! just for grin's whats the most HP out of an ALH that we know of to date ? and what is the breaking HP for stock trans and engine internals ? will really appreciate this info so I dont go too far . I have only had this thing for 6 months, have another engine that suffered timing issues set aside to build but dont want to have to start on that like in the next couple days LOL
gsx700whp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2010, 20:56   #45
n1das
TDIClub Enthusiast
Veteran Member
 
n1das's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Fuel Economy: Who cares? It's a DIESEL! Great fuel economy comes as a bonus!
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth TDI
The timing belt replacement just went from medium-difficulty to "***!"
Drop the engine w/tranny attached out of the car to take enough stuff off to get at the TB.
__________________
Why DIESEL is better: (Courtesy TDIclub forum member wxman)
PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
General - https://sites.google.com/view/emissions-general/home
n1das is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17211 seconds with 9 queries
[Output: 141.73 Kb. compressed to 119.46 Kb. by saving 22.27 Kb. (15.72%)]