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VW B5 Passat TDIs This is a general discussion about B5 Passat(>98 (2004-2005 in North America)). Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old April 24th, 2010, 19:17   #1
TDForNow
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Default How about an upper control arm/tie rod end DIY, -- Pt 1 of 3

Just did my "rattle arms". Here's how;

The usual disclaimer : Safety FIRST!!
Support the vehicle with ramps and/or jack-stands,
Consult the proper pubs for torque and alignment values,
I did my best to put this up here, but if I missed anything or if anything looks questionable, this isn't gospel (and I ain't God!) by ALL means ask.

The best thing you can do is, starting a week in advance, wire brush and spray all the bolts, nuts and pinch joints DAILY with PB, Break-free, etc to gain some advantage(hopefully). Rap the pinch joints with a hammer to help work in the Break-free. Drape a towel over the inside of the wheel to keep over-spray and drips off the brakes.

I've shown the right side here, left side is a mirror copy. I didn't have to disturb the brakes or axles at all to do this.


1.) Disconnect the sway bar...
Drive up on ramp if avail, (if not, do this with the car level on the ground) but do this with the front end weighted...



2.) ...From BOTH sides....
...this gives the susp. more flexibility and independent "droop" to work with ... now, you can jack and brace the (right side in this case -- Use Jack Stands) and remove the wheel ...



3.) Tie rod end is getting changed too ...
Loosen tie rod end (T-R-E) shank cap bolt BEFORE loosening clamp bolt ...(Again ONLY if changing T-R-E too) ...



4.) Loosen upper link pinch-bolt ...
... I was done a HUGE favor when these were changed last ... copper anti-seize (A/S) paste was used liberally!! ...Thankfully ... considering almost 200k miles and 11 NH winters, this all came out really easy!



5.) Tight in there ...(RFU CA)
This is why the whole strut ass'y has to come out ...



6.) Loosen ...
... (only for now) the bolt connecting the strut to lower front control arm ...



7.) Using a punch ("drift" for you Brits) ...
... push out the upper link pinch bolt ...



8.) And ...
... the T-R-E pinch bolt ...



9.) Remove T-R-E cap bolt ..



10.) Using a pry-bar ...
... spread clamp ONLY enough to tap out T-R-E ...



On to Pt 2 ...
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ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)

Last edited by TDForNow; April 24th, 2010 at 21:12.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 19:20   #2
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Default Upper control arm - tie rod end DIY -- Pt 2 of 3 ...

11.) .) T-R-E is free...



12.) ..and ...
... spread clamps, again, ONLY enough to tap out upper links ...



13.) ... Top of wheel bearing housing/hub ass'y. ...
.. is now free ..



14.) ..Lower strut mount ...
.. remove the nut ONLY ...



15.) Upper strut mount ...
... remover the two inboard bolts and JUST loosen the outboard one ...



16.) Back to lower strut mount ...
... now remove lower strut bolt and guide wheel bearing housing to where it'll rest out of the way ...



17.) Almost there ...
... Now grab strut with one hand and remove the last upper mount bolt, and out it comes! Note how the right front upper CA "fell" (bushing was junk!)



18.) Now, the T-R-E ...
... the jam nut is a 22mm and the inner Tie Rod is an 18mm. (Again, THANKS to the previous installer for the A/S paste!) Trying NOT to let the inner Tie Rod turn, loosen the jam-nut, then just barely snug it back (by hand ... to keep the thread dimension as accurate as possible) Now, while still holding inner Tie Rod with the wrench, unthread the T-R-E off, taking care not to disturb the jam nut (measurement needed for the new one).



19.) New T-R-E ...
... the shank is 180 deg out when mfg'd, put it in the wheel-bearing housing, slide the pinch bolt in and spin the T-R-E around ...



20.) There! that looks better!!
That'll make it easier to install ... now, pull it back out ...



And finally Pt 3 ...
__________________
Alain

ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)

Last edited by TDForNow; April 24th, 2010 at 21:13.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 19:23   #3
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Default upper control arm - tie rod end DIY -- Pt 3 of 3 ...

21.) Match old/new T-R-E length ...
... lay the old and new T-R-E's together and measure the old one from the SHANK to the OUTSIDE of the jam-nut and match this measurement to the new one (butter the threads of the new one with A/S paste first) Now install the new T-R-E and tighten the jam nut. This is what's going to get you to the alignment shop without scrubbing off the front tires!



22.) Be sure to use Anti-Seize Paste!! (I know I've mentioned this a few times ...)
...On threads and Especially where different metals meet (bolt shanks and aluminum parts)



23.) Now remove and replace the control arms ONE AT A TIME to line up with the other one IF ...
... it's at ride height spec. (Control Arms are "set" at normal ride height when torqued to prevent excess stress on the bushings) Then torque the "Hat" end. Do the same for the other one now.



24.) Upper CA's installed!
While you've got the strut ass'y out, spray where the upper strut bolts mount to the "Hat" with break-free and then A/S paste (to help that job when it comes around!) Now, re-install the strut ass'y in reverse of how it was removed. (Did I mention DON'T forget A/S paste! Including the ball joint shanks and sockets.)



25.) Now, the new T-R-E pinch bolt ...
... the flat side of the head has to be absolutely vertical and facing fwd before installing ...



26.) Top's all done and torqued!
You'll have to push the CA's and T-R-E in against the boot ends to get the pinch bolts in. After getting the pinch-bolt in and torqued, give everything a good once over, the brakes and axles as well as anything else in sight (The Military's 12" rule is a good example -- find anything wrong with-in 12" of what you're working on -- get it fixed!)



27.) Put the wheel on and lower the right side back down weighted and re-install both ends of the sway bar.
Now, re-check both pinch-bolt torques and go get an alignment!
__________________
Alain

ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)

Last edited by TDForNow; April 28th, 2010 at 21:23.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 05:55   #4
Brian's96TDIPASSAT
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hopefully that's some penetrating oil you sprayed on your tie rod end OR perhaps your rack is starting to leak. I"m sure if you tackled this job on your own you'd know the differance, nice write up.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 05:56   #5
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and, btw, you guys must use a lot of salt on the roads up there, that's a lot of rust, my undercarriage still looks new on my 05, 136K
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Old April 28th, 2010, 21:19   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian's96TDIPASSAT
hopefully that's some penetrating oil you sprayed on your tie rod end OR perhaps your rack is starting to leak. I"m sure if you tackled this job on your own you'd know the differance, nice write up.
Yup, it's penetrating oil (and I do, thankfully)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian's96TDIPASSAT
and, btw, you guys must use a lot of salt on the roads up there, that's a lot of rust, my undercarriage still looks new on my 05, 136K
Not as much salt as calcium chloride and magnesium chloride or a concoction of any ratio of the three! Like I said before 200k miles and 11 NH winters subjected to that brine!

We don't have many A3 G/J's left up here! They've mostly rotted in half at the floor pans by now!
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Alain

ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)

Last edited by TDForNow; April 29th, 2010 at 11:04.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 05:59   #7
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Quote:
19.) New T-R-E ...
... the shank is 180 deg out when mfg'd, put it in the wheel-bearing housing, slide the pinch bolt in and spin the T-R-E around ...

No! That is the rod end for the LEFT side!

And had you installed the upper arm inner bolts from the shock side, with the nuts outward, you'd avoid most of this dis-assembly. The need to remove the complete shock / spring assembly is to remove those two bolts that won't clear the inner fender. Turning them around allows them to be removed inward next time, meaning without removing the suspension.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 11:03   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut
No! That is the rod end for the LEFT side!

And had you installed the upper arm inner bolts from the shock side, with the nuts outward, you'd avoid most of this dis-assembly. The need to remove the complete shock / spring assembly is to remove those two bolts that won't clear the inner fender. Turning them around allows them to be removed inward next time, meaning without removing the suspension.
Yup, (I hope this "" means you're joking) The rod ends are made for ONE particular side for ease of MFG'g, but starting with the B5's, one part # IS applicable for BOTH sides.

Re: Bentley Sec 40, Fig: N40-0518, Items 3 and 40.
For safety redundancy, the bolts were (and SHOULD be) installed with the bolt heads facing AWAY from the springs at the factory. This is in case of failure of the nut (somehow?) the bolt would obviously be able to move and would only back out as far as the inner fender, but would still be able to retain the control arm in place. If reversed and this had happened, the bolt would be able to fall completely out, releasing the control arm. I'd hate to see that happen in the middle of a spirited run through the twisties.
I don't think anyone's seen this happen recently, but why tempt it.

There's only four additional bolts involved in dropping the strut and that makes it easier to work on it out of the car with my big hands .
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Alain

ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)
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Old April 29th, 2010, 18:53   #9
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And I say B.S.
None of the other bolts are installed with this interference. What prevents the pinch bolt from falling out? The tie rod end bolt?

No, the reason they are installed outside-in is for ease of assembly of the suspension before it is put up into the car on the line.

The spin doctors can claim all sort of justification, and Bentley will just regurgitate it back, but logical analysis makes their assertions ludicrous.

At the least Bentley could have put in a "" after that drivel.
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If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

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Old April 29th, 2010, 18:58   #10
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About the left side / right side comment:
I bought a box of nails that were 50% defective. On half of them the heads and points were swapped end-for-end! <edited to add the smiley that Bentley should learn to use>
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If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
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Old April 29th, 2010, 20:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut
About the left side / right side comment:
I bought a box of nails that were 50% defective. On half of them the heads and points were swapped end-for-end! <edited to add the smiley that Bentley should learn to use>
You didn't say whether you had returned the nails or flipped them around before hammering.

... BTW ...
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Alain

ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)
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Old April 30th, 2010, 18:44   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDForNow
You didn't say whether you had returned the nails or flipped them around before hammering.
The general contractor had quite a laugh about my "complaint" too.
Then he took pity on me and pointed out that those reversed nails were for the opposite side of the wall.


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If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
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Old April 30th, 2010, 21:18   #13
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Hahaha!!
Quick witted was he! ..... I hope he didn't set the box down at the "wrong" side first, probably would have charged extra to have to pick through to the "right" ones.
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ABS, ASR, ASC, BSD, BSW, DMS, EBAS, ESC, ESP, EDL, ISA, LDW, TPS, TPW to bale their arses out ... and ONSTAR* and E-CALL to rescue them for "successfully" defeating any or all of these!!

REALLY!! .... Drivers Wanted!!

It's no wonder the OTHER animals haven't "evolved" away from survival of the fittest! ... Looking at our "progress", they know they're better off!!"

'99 Passat AEB GLS Wagon
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
'85 Quantum TD (RIP)
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Old May 1st, 2010, 10:09   #14
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Question

Back to the subject at hand......

First, good job on documenting this repair with pictures.

Is replacement of all of the bushings in the 8 control arms of the front suspension significantly cheaper than replacement all of the control arms with brand new control arms containing all of the new bushings? (assuming the owner is willing to do the work himself)

I would think that only the bushings are the "worn" items.....the metal of the arms doesn't fatigue, does it?

Thanks.
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Old May 1st, 2010, 11:57   #15
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You can get aftermarket control arms with bushing in them for less than the cost bushings+labor to press out/in. Besides, the ball joint part of the control arm is not replacable. I've been running the upper aftermarket control arms since I replaced my suspension (see other threads) without a problem.
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