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Old January 31st, 2010, 13:05   #1
rocketeer928
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Default Removed/Reinstalled Instrument Cluster - Now Immobilizer Will Not Let Car Start

I removed my instrument cluster two weeks ago, had some LED work done on it, and have reinstalled. Now the Immobilizer-3 light blinks, and when I try to start the car, it does the typical running for 2 seconds and dies.

I followed the troubleshooting found here: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_h...mmobilizer.htm

Specifically, I've done the following with no success:

- Charged up my battery and checked voltage is greater than 12.5 V (I still have the original OEM battery with 86,000+ miles and 6+ years on it)

- Tried to start the car with both of my keys/fob

- Leaving the key in the ignition to "ON" but not start for a few minutes to see if the immobilizer light would stop flashing

- Disconnecting BOTH negative and positive terminals of the battery, and then touched the cables to each other for about 1 minute, while not attached to the battery

- Ran VCDS, which gave me plenty of faults related to the immobilizer

Here is my scan:

Sunday,31,January,2010,14:59:53:24789
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: 3VWSP69M23M###### Mileage: 138830km/86264miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-012-AGR.lbl
Part No: 038 906 012 GN
Component: RC s04c EDC G520SG 4308
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 00066
3VWSP69M23M###### VWZ7Z0C7554168

2 Faults Found:
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
P1650 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 1 1 0 1 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Coding: 0019458
Shop #: WSC 00028 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
Component: 04 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003
Coding: 12340
Shop #: WSC 00066

1 Fault Found:
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487-A.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487 A
Component: Lenkradelektronik 0005
Coding: 00118
Shop #: WSC 00028

2 Faults Found:
01341 - Control Module in Instrument Panel On Comfort CAN (J285)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01341 - Control Module in Instrument Panel On Comfort CAN (J285)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 906 L
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V65
Coding: 07432
Shop #: WSC 00000
3VWSP69M23M###### VWZ7Z0C7554168

7 Faults Found:
01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
35-00 - -
01176 - Key
07-00 - Signal too Low
01312 - Powertrain Data Bus
37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01336 - Data Bus for Comfort System
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00028

6 Faults Found:
01312 - Powertrain Data Bus
37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01336 - Data Bus for Comfort System
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 1H Komfortger·t HLO 0003
Coding: 00259
Shop #: WSC 00028

Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.FS KLO 0010

Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.BF KLO 0010

Part No: 1C0959811A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.HL KLO 0202

Part No: 1C0959812A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.HR KLO 0202

1 Fault Found:
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 3B7 035 180 D
Component: Radio ZSW 0010
Coding: 04401
Shop #: WSC 00028

5 Faults Found:
00879 - Connection to Speaker Front Right
44-10 - Short Circuit - Intermittent
00849 - S-contact at Ignition/Starter Switch (D)
78-10 - Missing Messages - Intermittent
01326 - Control Module for Multi-Function Steering Wheel (J453)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01064 - Terminal 58d; Interior Dimming
78-10 - Missing Messages - Intermittent
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal
78-10 - Missing Messages - Intermittent

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point, I have no idea what to do to get my Jetta started. All the searching that I have done tells me to do what I described above.

Can someone help, please!!
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Old January 31st, 2010, 13:14   #2
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Should I try clearing the codes via VCDS and try to start?
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Old January 31st, 2010, 13:26   #3
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Wow, I would be spitting bullets. Hope the reset works. I feel for ya.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 14:23   #4
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I re-scaned and cleared all my codes, then touched the two battery ends for another minutes. Still does not start! Here's my latest scan (only including where fault codes found):

Sunday,31,January,2010,17:08:28:24789
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: 3VWSP69M23M###### Mileage: 138830km/86264miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-012-AGR.lbl
Part No: 038 906 012 GN
Component: RC s04c EDC G520SG 4308
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 00066
3VWSP69M23M###### VWZ7Z0C7554168

1 Fault Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0 0 1 1 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 906 L
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V65
Coding: 07432
Shop #: WSC 00000
3VWSP69M23M192730 VWZ7Z0C7554168

2 Faults Found:
01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
35-00 - -
01176 - Key
07-00 - Signal too Low

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 1H Komfortger·t HLO 0003
Coding: 00259
Shop #: WSC 00028

Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.FS KLO 0010

Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.BF KLO 0010

Part No: 1C0959811A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.HL KLO 0202

Part No: 1C0959812A
Component: 1H Tırsteuer.HR KLO 0202

1 Fault Found:
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm starting to wonder if I will need to buy a new programmed key and fob...
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Old January 31st, 2010, 15:15   #5
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Default Ordered VAG Tacho 2.5

I just ordered a VAG Tacho 2.5 shipped from Northeastern U.S.

For my problem, I'm not sure which of the procedures in the following link I must follow: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_h...ulti/immo3.htm

Choices are:

- Procedure for matching keys to vehicles with Immobilizer in the Instrument Cluster

- Procedure for adding keys to vehicles with separate Immobilizer

- BRAND NEW ECU (doubt this one, since I did not swap my ECU)

- Used ECU (doubt this one, since I did not swap my ECU)

- Procedure for installing a NEW Instrument Cluster in vehicles with Immobilizer III (doubt this one, since I did not swap my instrument cluster)

Can anyone help, PLEASE!!!
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Old January 31st, 2010, 15:25   #6
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The original codes were probably stored as a result of turning the car on when the instrument cluster was not in the vehicle or not properly installed, as the CAN gateway and the Immobilizer are all physically present in the instrument cluster.

Clearing the codes and trying it again seems to have pointed to the issue : The immobilzer donut (black circular thing around ignition key slot) has having an issue reading the key. The donut cannot read the RFID key tag, therefore it can't compare that value to the values stored in the EEPROM as authorized keys.

Easy stuff: I'd verify that the connectors on the instrument cluster are plugged in properly for starters. I'm assuming they are, they are pretty hard not to get correct.

Second, I'd look for damaged pins in the cluster housing and damaged pins or wires on the connectors going to the cluster. I gave up my MkIV Bentley, so I have no wiring diagrams, however the donut has a connection to the cluster.

If neither of those work, I'd see if you can get your hands on another Immo3 instrument cluster, even temporarily. Your car will likely not start, but it would tell you if the donut that reads the keys are still having issues. (You'd get a code about unauthorised key if the donut can read a key when connected to a different cluster, not a signal too low from key.) This will determine if you have a cluster problem or an immo donut problem. Any 1J0 920 xx6 cluster or 1J5 920 xx6 cluster will suffice for this test, gas or diesel, etc..

I say try a new instrument cluster first as I'm assuming you did nothing while the cluster was down and out to the wiring or connections to the immo donut or anything else in the steering column. Depending on what resources are available to you, it might be easier for you to trace down the wiring from the cluster to the immo donut than get your hands on another instrument cluster.

If you did happen to be poking around in the steering column, ensure that all the grounds are good. There's a grounding post in there that has a bunch of brown wires connected to it. Make sure it's not tarnished / corroded and that the screw/bolts are tightened.

This is a crappy situation.

BTW: Do you happen to know your 4 digit Immo SKC?
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Last edited by dzcad90; January 31st, 2010 at 15:28.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 15:42   #7
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Crappy is putting it mildly. I'm certainly not thrilled about what you're telling me, but I do appreciate the response. I do not know my 4 digit Immo SKC, which is why I just ordered a VAG Tacho 2.5.

If all the pins and wiring are OK and I get my SKC via the VAG Tacho, then would the "procedure for matching keys to vehicles with Immobilizer in the Instrument Cluster" be worth a try before trying to get a second instrument cluster?
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Old January 31st, 2010, 15:48   #8
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As for your proposed solution, I don't think this is going to be the smoking gun fix.

The cluster isn't saying the key isn't authorized, it's saying that the signal from the key is too low to get a reading. Re-Matching keys isn't going to do you much good if the immo donut / cluster can't get the ID number from the key. See where I'm going with this? If the keys had become unmatched you would get a fault indicating "Unauthorized key". This means that it successfully read the ID from the key, however it did not match one of the key IDs that were in the EEPROM as adapted.

If the ground for the Immo donut is weak or bad, it would cause this issue. Broken wiring as well as a bad donut would also cause this fault.

The Immo donuts have been known to go bad on occasion, and there was an issue in early NBs with Immo with some kind of a loose connection or bad immo reader causing the same conditions you are seeing.


It could be coincidence that your Immo donut went bad at this time, however it's pretty unlikely. Thats why my first suggestion would be to get a new cluster, then to trace wiring. If no other cluster is available, check wiring.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 15:52   #9
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BTW.. IIRC you don't need to take the steering wheel off to remove the plastic shroud around the steering column to check the ground connection. Removing the steering wheel isn't that big of a deal though, it's about a 15 minute process if you have the proper triple square bit (Hint: a T55 bit works just as well for this procedure.)
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Old January 31st, 2010, 16:08   #10
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This is very unusual when you work on same cluster. I think either you have damage D2 coil reader (one in cluster) or the pins on cluster are bent or damage. Immobilizer can't lost programing . You can unplug cluster for 1 year and put it back and it will work with key. Something went wrong when you did LEDs on that cluster. You may unsolder something. I doubt with SCK you will be able to do anything.
As Dzcad90 said You are getting code for low signal from key not for Unauthorized key.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 16:51   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzcad90
BTW.. IIRC you don't need to take the steering wheel off to remove the plastic shroud around the steering column to check the ground connection. Removing the steering wheel isn't that big of a deal though, it's about a 15 minute process if you have the proper triple square bit (Hint: a T55 bit works just as well for this procedure.)
disconnect the battery neg side; insert key to unlock wheel; spin wheel all the way to one side; insert small flat head screw driver in the rear slot & pop airbag hold-down latch; spin all the way to the opposite side and do the same; pull airbag slightly out (little cable needs disconnected then airbag can be removed); use torx 55 to undo the center nut; remove wheel.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 17:29   #12
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I checked the pins in the cluster (both green and blue), and everything looks straight. The guy who did the LED work for me suggested that I reinstall the cluster and try pushing the key in further than normal so that the immo coil can read the chip in the fob easy. Any thoughts on that?

I guess I'll be buying the Torx 55 tomorrow.

Edit: Just discovered that I need a 12-mm triple square, which I already have, so no trip to AutoZone. Good!
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Last edited by rocketeer928; January 31st, 2010 at 18:17.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 17:58   #13
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Pushing the key in is kind of BS. The key only needs to be in the vicinity of the reader. To give you an idea, the TSB on Immobilizer keymatching states that the other VW keys should be on the passenger seat while you are doing the key matching process. (i.e. Don't leave other keys in your lap) As long as the key is in the lock cyilinder, it's close enough.

IMO, that's just an answer to try and get you off his back.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 18:10   #14
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I know that when Jeff tunes car the immo number can change. I wonder if somehow your cluster is looking for one immo code and your ecu is looking for another, maybe as a result of the LED install.

I suggest you call Jeff and see what he thinks.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 18:21   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon
I know that when Jeff tunes car the immo number can change. I wonder if somehow your cluster is looking for one immo code and your ecu is looking for another, maybe as a result of the LED install.

I suggest you call Jeff and see what he thinks.
That would really suck! After I get the steering wheel off and look for loose wires and connectors, if it still will not work then I'll call Jeff.

I'm kicking myself for wanting to do a modification to my instrument cluster. I had no idea I was going to run into these problems and essentially have a huge 4-wheel paper weight in my garage. And, I have not even revealed what the mod is on my main thread yet.
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