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Old December 23rd, 2009, 09:06   #1
aikway
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Default 2003 Jetta TDI injector pump bad?

Suddenly my Jetta won't start. No fuel showing when cranked with injector line fitting open a half turn? Fuel filter new and full of fuel. How do I determine if the fuel injector pump is bad? If the pump is dry, do I need to prime it? What else would cause no fuel at the injectors if fuel lines are clear and the fuel filter is OK?
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 22:24   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikway
Suddenly my Jetta won't start. No fuel showing when cranked with injector line fitting open a half turn? Fuel filter new and full of fuel. How do I determine if the fuel injector pump is bad? If the pump is dry, do I need to prime it? What else would cause no fuel at the injectors if fuel lines are clear and the fuel filter is OK?
I would suspect air is leaking into the fuel filter through the thermostatic-T.

Replace the O-rings, make sure they are "fat" enough to make an air-tight seal.

Edit: Re-read your post, if the fuel filter is full then air is not entering via the thermostatic-T.
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Old December 24th, 2009, 07:07   #3
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Another maybe: the fuel cutoff solenoid.
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Old December 24th, 2009, 20:00   #4
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__. There are a couple of different "primes". One is the prime that gets fuel into the pump. If ithe pump is dry, you need to put a MityVac (or similar) on the fuel return pipe (the one that goes to the Thermo-T). Pull a vacuum and you'll soon see bubbles coming up, keep on until pure liquid fuel comes up.

__. Once you've primed the pump, you need to prime the injectors. To do this, loosen the big nuts (I think they're 17mm) on top of the injectors about 1/2--3/4 of a turn. Then crank the engine, in about 5-7 seconds you'll see fuel squirting out of the injector with the shortest line to the injector. Once you see this, tighten up that cap nut. Then you'll see another one squirt in a few seconds, etc. It may start to "kick over", at that point tighten up the remaining cap nuts.

__. If it doesn't start after all this and the pump is dry again, you have a bigger problem .... gelled fuel, frozen tank pickup, leaking "O-ring" on the Thermo-T, or bad pump. But usually a bad pump will continue to pump a little; it may be at the wrong time or low pressure. A pump that doesn't pump *anything* and is totally dry usually isn't a dry pump, it's usually another problem. But these are complicated systems and you have to do a thorough, logical troubleshooting sequence.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 06:02   #5
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Head seal!
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Old December 25th, 2009, 06:57   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runonbeer
A leak at the pump head would not draw air into the system, would it?
Under operating conditions the case is under pressure and a bad pump head seal would would cause fuel to leak out but not air in.
On the other hand a bad seal on the shaft right behind the pump's pulley hub may cause air to be drawn into the pump without necessarily leak fuel out (so said Mark at DFIS in Portland). Unfortunately the pump repair seal kits that are commonly available don't include this one.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:18   #7
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In my experience, a head seal does not necessarily have to be leaking fuel externally to cause a loss of prime. Air can creep in past the seal and displace all of the fuel back to the tank. I'm not sure how this works (since there is nothing like a dip tube inside the pump) but I have seen it happen. Indeed, once you attempt to re-prime the pump with a vacuum device, you will find that you are pulling air across the seal instead of pulling fuel from the tank into the pump. Usually, as I've said before, you get "one last chance" to reprime a pump that has lost prime due to a head seal failure before you are unable to prime on subsequent attempts. At this point, one must replace the seal before the pump can be primed (or use a non-vacuum device, i.e. a hand pump/primer bulb).

the main shaft seal on my car has been "weeping" for a significant amount of time. It has not gotten any worse in the last 3 years and I have never experienced a loss of prime on my car outside of the time that my head seal failed (no evidence of an external leak when it happened). Lucky for me, I'm me so I just stuck a new seal in there and moved on with my day.
The main shaft seal leak is not really a big deal in my opinion (outside of aesthetics) and I tend to ignore it. Pump removal is required to repair a "weeping" shaft seal.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 21:52   #8
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JETaah you are right . Head seal won't do that. I had car it was pouring fuel at pump head and it will start normal.
I would said check voltage on shut of valve . You will have 11-12V for few seconds when you turn ignition on ,so you must do this with some one in car and you checking.
Also do you get glow plug light on dash? You my have bad 109 relay.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 23:01   #9
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ANY leak, from the filter, to quick couple lines, to the seals can cause fuel to leak back to the tank. However, if the filter is full when you remove the 'T', that is not likely the culprit.

Certainly, the first step is to make sure the fuel shutoff is operational. It should click when the key is moved to the ON position. If not, the next thing to check is the 109 relay. They are historically one of the problem-makers

The fuel can displace back to the tank any time there is an air leak. The tank is the low point and the lines become a siphons. There is supposed to be a check ball in the fuel lines, but they don't always work. So, fuel can siphon from either the fuel feed line or the fuel return line. The return line ball check is in the right direction for siphoning already. All it takes is an air leak.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 23:01   #10
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ANY leak, from the filter, to quick couple lines, to the seals can cause fuel to leak back to the tank. However, if the filter is full when you remove the 'T', that is not likely the culprit.

Certainly, the first step is to make sure the fuel shutoff is operational. It should click when the key is moved to the ON position. If not, the next thing to check is the 109 relay. They are historically one of the problem-makers

The fuel can displace back to the tank any time there is an air leak. The tank is the low point and the lines become a siphons. There is supposed to be a check ball in the fuel lines, but they don't always work. So, fuel can siphon from either the fuel feed line or the fuel return line. The return line ball check is in the right direction for siphoning already. All it takes is an air leak.
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Old December 26th, 2009, 06:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder Hound
Another maybe: the fuel cutoff solenoid.
I agree...most simple to check (1 wire)

especially if the pump suddenly sends no fuel.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 08:19   #12
aikway
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Default Fuel injector pump bad?

I put a mityvac on the fuel filter and got good steady fuel, then when I try to pull from the return line off of the pump, I get a little fuel in the line then it stops???
Aikway






Quote:
Originally Posted by mrGutWrench
__. There are a couple of different "primes". One is the prime that gets fuel into the pump. If ithe pump is dry, you need to put a MityVac (or similar) on the fuel return pipe (the one that goes to the Thermo-T). Pull a vacuum and you'll soon see bubbles coming up, keep on until pure liquid fuel comes up.

__. Once you've primed the pump, you need to prime the injectors. To do this, loosen the big nuts (I think they're 17mm) on top of the injectors about 1/2--3/4 of a turn. Then crank the engine, in about 5-7 seconds you'll see fuel squirting out of the injector with the shortest line to the injector. Once you see this, tighten up that cap nut. Then you'll see another one squirt in a few seconds, etc. It may start to "kick over", at that point tighten up the remaining cap nuts.

__. If it doesn't start after all this and the pump is dry again, you have a bigger problem .... gelled fuel, frozen tank pickup, leaking "O-ring" on the Thermo-T, or bad pump. But usually a bad pump will continue to pump a little; it may be at the wrong time or low pressure. A pump that doesn't pump *anything* and is totally dry usually isn't a dry pump, it's usually another problem. But these are complicated systems and you have to do a thorough, logical troubleshooting sequence.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 09:16   #13
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Quote:
Indeed, once you attempt to re-prime the pump with a vacuum device, you will find that you are pulling air across the seal instead of pulling fuel from the tank into the pump.
Head Seal!
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 20:11   #14
mrGutWrench
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikway
I put a mityvac on the fuel filter and got good steady fuel, then when I try to pull from the return line off of the pump, I get a little fuel in the line then it stops??? Aikway
__. Do you mean that it pulls a little fuel and then the fuel stops but it starts pulling air instead????
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 21:44   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikway
I put a mityvac on the fuel filter and got good steady fuel, then when I try to pull from the return line off of the pump, I get a little fuel in the line then it stops???
Aikway
When it "stops"... Does it hold vacuum? If so, be patient.. It'll burp, air will flow and then you will get fuel (If all is well). You'll probably get foam for a while, followed by smaller bubbles, followed by clear fuel. Also - just to verify that you're doing it right... You need to plug the return line that you've pulled off of the IP, and pull vacuum on the IP nipple.
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