A tour of power relay 219

MOGolf

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Here's a tour of the power relay 219 in the B5.5 Passat TDI.






Note the two contacts in the relay. One is obscured by the blue plastic.


If you unhook the spring you can gain access to the contact surface and clean as necessary.


I found quite a bit of oxidation had formed on the relay's external contacts. Inside, the contacts had obvious wear, but not enough to be conerned about. Deoxit 5, and a Deoxit Power Pen cleaned up most of the oxidation. I also sprayed a little D5 into the relay socket in the car, and applied an oxidation protector to the contacts during reinstallation. Hopefully this will extend the life of the relay.

At least it doesn't have bad solder joints like the A4 platform relay 109 was noted to have.
 
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Wizard

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219 what's it control?

don't mean to sound novice, but i am interested as to what this relay powers.
have you had frequent issues with this relay?

edit... cancel reply, read the other post.
 
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MOGolf

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This is the main power relay to the ECM. and also supplies power to the in-tank fuel pump relay. The ECM power feed also goes to the heating element of the oxygen sensor (via the nearby 10A fuse), and via the nearby a power feed to the glow plug relay (not for the glow plugs themselves, just the relay), and via the nearby 15A fuse: the N75, the intake flap motor, the PCV heater, brake pedal CC switch, clutch switch (if the car had a manual transmission), CC switch, and a radiator fan relay (used if ECM thinks the engine coolant is too hot after shutdown).

If this relay fails, your GP light will not light when you first turn the key to on, and your car will crank but won't start. If it fails while the car is running, the engine will stop running.

The TCM, ABS, Instruments and CAN controllers will note a fault of "missing powertrain message". The PRND4321 will turn red with dark letters.

Failures have been reported in other threads.
 
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MOGolf

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I also checked and found the relay can be special ordered via NAPA for about $37. NAPA part number AR6119ECH. VW part number 443 951 253 AA. If you supply the VW part number, NAPA can look up what their part is. They call it a fuel pump relay.
 

aja8888

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MOGolf: Thank you for your research and effort on this relay. I plan to have a look at mine when time and weather permits. Seeing I am planning on a few long driving trips this year, having this information is a huge bonus.;)
 

daedalus

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Is this a frequent failure point, enough to keep one in the ever-growing 'just-in-case' kit in the car?
 

MOGolf

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The relay is inside the box. The box lid has a rubber type seal going around the mating edge to keep out moisture. It is a pain to get out due to poor planning by VW designers. No clearance for it between the ECM plug and the plastic trim above, and they put one screw in a poor location.

I put together a PDF for how to get to it.

It isn't a frequent failure part but some have reported failures. If you carry a spare, carry the tools described in the PDF too. The spare won't do you much good without the ability to install it.
 
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mogalski

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2005 2.0L TDI Passat
Just Replaced

I just took some photos of my faulty relay 219.

This is a bit out of focus, but you can see that both contacts have a bit of oxidation. I am more suspicious of the irregularities on the surface.

Indeed, the TCU,ABS, Instruments, and Airbags all reported P1850:
"Powertrain data missing message from ECU."

There were no engine codes, b/c even though it failed when the car was running, it's as though you turned off the engine.



 

MOGolf

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Yes, that one on the left, the "exposed" contact of the two, is the one for the ECM and all the other stuff except the lift pump relay. When that wears down, or charred to a bad connection, you might as well have turned off the key.

I must have left residue of something on the contact when I had mine apart for the photo shoot. It started acting intermittent. I had to remove it, take it apart, and scrape off the contact. One might say I tooefed my relay. :eek: Oh the shame of it. :(
 

Growler

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MOGolf said:
One might say I tooefed my relay. :eek: Oh the shame of it. :(
At least you said it, and i didn't have to :)

Glad I could lend you a hand on Sunday when it got wonky on you.

good advice keeping the tools in the car to change it. its def not easy to do on a Cold morning in Dec. in a parking lot.
 

MOGolf

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The new relay 219

I bought a new relay 219. It was manufactured just a couple of months ago. Things have changed. I noticed that the outer case was held on by two locking tabs instead of four. This got me curious about what is inside.

Very different insides.




The change of interest is that there are three contact points. Two of them are for lug 87 (ECM, etc.) and one for 87a (fuel pump relay). That means that the feed to the ECM is no longer a single-point-of-failure relay contact. It seems like a wise, preventive course of action is to remove the old design and put in a new one.
 

vwztips

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Interesting. My 2001 1.8t (which I just sold) had intermittent misses. Vag-Com kept telling me the Cam Chain Tensioner was bad (power for the CCT goes through this relay as well as supplying ECM power). Traced the problem back to the relay next to the ECM. I cannot remember the relay # but I bought a new one at the dealer for $15 and problem was solved. Of the many previous Passats I have owned, it was the first time I had a problem with that relay. Now I know what the prablem was.
 

aja8888

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MOGolf: Thanks for the update. I believe I will buy a new relay as it makes good sense to me to be a bit proactive.

Can you provide the source of that updated relay so that I can order one? I want to minimze any chance of getting old stock from a vendor. I would assume that the part number is the same for the upgraded relay as the older (OEM) one.

Thanks,

Tony
 

MOGolf

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Sourced from a VW dealership.
 

MOGolf

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As Tony said. Also, there's a diagram on the side of the relay that also shows the circuit has two contacts to 87 vs the old diagram with just one contact in the diagram.
 

MOGolf

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Old and new relay 219


Schematic sides of new and old relays
 

Chrismak

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Great write up MOGOLF as usual. This is something I have to look into as my car is currently laid up waiting the install of the Convenience control module.
Thread here
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=265152&page=2
Could The no start issue be related to the Convenience control module? Not sure if there is a connection (Pun alert) there or not. It ran fine for a week prior to me addressing the module issue. The morning I started working on it tried starting to move the car and no start. Car has 154K and never failed to start before. I will install the new module tomorrow and take it from there, but this will definitely be on the list.
The PDF link didn't work for me for some reason if you get a chance maybe
you can check it. Never mind I found the link http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3419/Accessing_the_Passat_ECM.pdf
Thanks again for your research and help.
Chris
 
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MOGolf

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I fixed the link in my earlier post.

I don't think the no start would involve the CCM. A relay 219 failure gives you no glow plug light at key on and/or no lift pump running. The no GP light indicates the ECM is not working and it won't start.
 

rocketboy52

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Just an FYI, I ordered the Napa relay with part # AR611ERC. It took 3 days to come in. The relay is related but not the same. After returning the part, I brought in the stock 219 part Napa and he found AR636 (going from memery on the #) that he believed was the right relay, but it would take 3-4 days to get it and it was priced at $46. Since it was expensive and a long wait, I ordered the 219 relay from www.1stvwparts.com. It was listed for $26 and 2-3 days delivery.

Here are pics of the wrong Napa AR611ERC relay:



 

Dico

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Hi from the UK. My first post.

I found this thread while Googling for 219 information. My symptoms started suddenly. I started my B5 1.9tdi up and it reved to 2000 revs, gave a puff of smoke out of the exhaust before settling instantly to tickover. I then set off and noticed a lack of power, as though the turbo wasn't working at all. I also had no glow plug dashboard light.
To cut a long story short, I checked all vacum pipes/turbo pipes, checked the turbo for play. Removed and cleaned the EGR valve. Replaced the MAF sensor probe. No difference. I then had a mechanic scan the ecu and he brought up a fault with the fuel stop valve, but said it was highly unlikely to fail (I have read of one report of failure). Anyway, I removed the valve and checked it, all seemed fine and there is not a lot to it. Replaced it and still no difference.
I was then pointed in the direction of the 109 relay, a common VW failure, but I don't have one. Instead I have the 219. It is just like the later one shown above and has 3 contacts. All seem clean and in good condition, from what I can tell. Anyway, upon replacing it my glow pug light has reappeared and the revving to 2000 revs on start up has stopped, but still no power. So I have just ordered a replacement from the local VW dealers at £26 and it will be ready to collect tomorrow morning.
It seems quite a few of us have had these fail so I just hope it is this as I have a several hundred mile trip planned this weekend. Strangely the car is still very economical.
And just remember, this is the shortened version!

Any thoughts welcome. I will report any progress.
Cheers all, Dico
 

thundershorts

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looks like the base color has changed to white which makes it easy to identify from the old design. if the lift pump relay contact fails, in the 219, that would also give an open fuel pump relay code? the amp rating for the ecu contact seems to be doubled as well by the use of the double contact for the ecu side.
 

Dico

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After two weeks with no power, and whilst on the way to collect the 219 relay that I had ordered from my local VW dealer, the car magically cured itself!!!!!
 

owr084

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After two weeks with no power, and whilst on the way to collect the 219 relay that I had ordered from my local VW dealer, the car magically cured itself!!!!!
If you return or install the part, the problem will immediately return. Just keep it on a shelf in the garage ;) Try to find someone with a VAGCOM/VCDS cable to scan your car for codes.
 

cspeter8

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does anyone have a part number for that 5th screw that has to be screwed down through the access hole?

I did the paper towel technique, but my socket was too fat to fit through the hole without a firm push, and the shock once it pushed through made it fall out of the socket.

thanks
 
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