U.S. Volkswagen chief Stefan Jacoby talks strategy - Detroit News

[domboy]

Originally Posted by DPM

why would you need a car bigger than a Passat just because you have two kids?

Yeah, I don't get it either. I know of at least four couples that bought a mini-van after having their first child. Why the heck does one need a seven passenger vehicle for ONE kid?? Even if it's a five seater with a huge trunk area, I still think it's overkill, because how much stuff does one kid need to have hauled around? My wife and I do just fine with our Golf and Vibe and one little guy. I don't think two would change that much.
That said, I wouldn't mind having a larger VW wagon (TDI and manual) for camping trips!

[DickSilver]

We own a Touran 1.9 TDI at our second home in South Africa. It is an excellent mini/microvan. Gets 40 mpg hiway. Seats five comfortably. Has three feet of space behind the second row of seats. Cupholders everywhere. Rear seats fold or remove for bigger cargo no problem. Backup proximity sensor.

If it weren't such a hassle & expense to import a single non-USA vehicle, I'd import it here.

[mavapa]

You can argue all day long that a Passat is big enough for the US market, but the market obviously tells us otherwise. One of the biggest problems with the Passat is that it is too much like a Jetta. And one of the biggest problems with the Phaeton is that it is too much like a Passat. In fact, I was convinced that the only Phaeton I have ever seen was a Passat as it overtook and finally passed me one day on the highway. Only when I could see it up close could I tell the difference. And far too little difference for the gigantic difference in price. So how are they going to sell it this time?

[Ski in NC]

I just helped my folks with their 99 Camry. It seems close in size to my 01 jetta, except that it is stretched a bit where the back doors are, giving some pretty good back seat room. Actually tolerable there.

My thoughts became: If you need a car with more room, you can do it by making the people box bigger. It is not necessary to add $10k of whizbang gizmos and fluff to get some more room. My jetta and the folks' camry have everything we need and desire in a car. None of us will buy the bigger vw because of the cost and all the fluff.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Ski in NC

I just helped my folks with their 99 Camry. It seems close in size to my 01 jetta, except that it is stretched a bit where the back doors are, giving some pretty good back seat room. Actually tolerable there.

My thoughts became: If you need a car with more room, you can do it by making the people box bigger. It is not necessary to add $10k of whizbang gizmos and fluff to get some more room. My jetta and the folks' camry have everything we need and desire in a car. None of us will buy the bigger vw because of the cost and all the fluff.

No,the 99 Camry is 16 inches longer than your Jetta. That's a substantial difference in length. The entire idea behind the NMS is a bigger car at a lower price than the current Passat. Exactly what the market requires.

[FredIA]

Originally Posted by domboy

Yeah, I don't get it either. I know of at least four couples that bought a mini-van after having their first child. Why the heck does one need a seven passenger vehicle for ONE kid?? Even if it's a five seater with a huge trunk area, I still think it's overkill, because how much stuff does one kid need to have hauled around?

I have four kids and yes I need a 7 passenger van. At three kids a typical 5 seater becomes too small because on top of seating the family you need room for groceries or luggage or a puke bucket or anything. When we were waiting for child number four (I adopted all my kids from South Korea) I decided to do a family vacation in the TDI. It was miserable. We were cramped and there was little room for anything except people since the trunk was full to the gills with luggage.

When your kids get to the 10-12 year old range -- with two -- it might still be doable in a 5 seater. (But tight.) But there is no way that you'll do that with three kids older than about 10 in a Jetta TDI.

The problem for us "larger families" that all of the vehicles-- all of them, including the Routan-- basically suck and are all exactly the same, CUV's included. They are large, heavy and are all alike. I'd love to see a 6-7 passenger vehicle like the new Ford Transit Connect (new to the US) set up with a 4 cyl turbo diesel (only in Europe, thank you Ford!) or a Routan with a VW powerplant instead of the pushrod/SOHC Chryslers so there are at least some good options for us.. but I doubt if that will happen.

The Mazda5's and the Kia Rondos have the seats but no grocery space. So basically you are stuck with a tank that gets 20 MPG if you have a family. YOU'D think that at least one manufacturer would come up with a good solution to that... wouldn't you? If VW put the Toureg2 TDI in the Routan they could have sold a lot of those. But instead they spend "a million dollars" redoing the sheet metal and the springs on the Routan. sigh...

One thing to remember when I drive the minivan, it hauls 5-6 people. At 18 MPG. The TDI usually is me or a second person at an average (acutal) 43 MPG. The van at 5 people * 18 MPG = 90 MPG per person. The TDI at two * 43 = 86 MPG per person. It's a more efficient use of resources to haul the family in the van than my big rear end to work in the TDI.

I'll agree that you don't necessairly need a tank to haul three people, but if you plan on having a second kid in the life of the vehicle, when you factor in the inherent increase in safety of the large vehicle and that it hauls many people it can be a more efficient choice to have the bigger vehicle.

I was at a family reunion this weekend when one of the families with 6 people showed up with two small cars and were bragging about saving the plaent by not having the large vehicle anymore. After looking up their cars, they probably did a combined 10 MPG.. so much for that.

Fred

[TDIMeister]

You are not typical. We are talking about the 2 child (or even 1 child) household where the parents are convinced they need a land barge to accommodate the fam for the annual road trip, or the guy that "needs" an F250 for his occasional trips to Home Depot.

[wolfskin]

Sooo funny!
I don't mean any offense, but it just goes to show how strong cultural influence really is on the way we organize our lives.

Two summers ago I was on vacation in Italy and briefly met a young couple with a small kid from germany who were taking a "nomad vacation" in a Lupo.
Now I hear that a Passat is not of adequate size for a family with 2 children.

But anyway, it's not for VW to decide what Americans should buy. If Americans want a sedan that's bigger than the EU Passat and outfitted cheaper than an EU Golf, that's what they should make in Chattanooga.

[kcfoxie]

So I suppose if the Mahindra Scorpio 7-seater SUV actually makes it here, some of you would be interested buyers?

[mavapa]

Some people talk about vehicle choice as if it were a moral question. In a way it might be, since our reliance on fossil fuels is so harmful in so many ways, but the US transportation system almost forces certain choices on people here, while the system in Europe tends to force other choices. In Europe, you can travel virtually anywhere without a vehicle, and fuel costs are high. If you can take the bus to work easily and travel from city to city by train conveniently, and fuel is expensive, maybe a Polo is all you need 99% of the time. And when you take a car vacation, you use what you have. Virtually everywhere in the US, if you want to get to work (or anywhere else for that matter), you have to use a car. There is no public transportation. And there has been virtually no penalty for poor mileage. So criticizing people for using big vehicles in the US is a little unfair. Many of us here happen to like VW diesels, and those diesels happen to come in small cars. For many of us, praising small cars is making a virtue of necessity.

[kcfoxie]

So you're saying that because we've allowed ourselves to remain ignorant we shouldn't be criticized?

[LRTDI]

Lets not forget that the factory here in the US seems destined to deliver a car that sounds bigger than the Passat.

Historically the VW brand only does well in good times in the US. VW USA really relies on excess disposable income/starbucks types to survive. The rest buy Toyotas/Hondas.

Raise the quality of the dealer network and proven reliability and there is a good brand wanting to break out here.

[kcfoxie]

Originally Posted by LRTDI

Lets not forget that the factory here in the US seems destined to deliver a car that sounds bigger than the Passat.

Historically the VW brand only does well in good times in the US. VW USA really relies on excess disposable income/starbucks types to survive. The rest buy Toyotas/Hondas.

Raise the quality of the dealer network and proven reliability and there is a good brand wanting to break out here.

When I look at the VW people still are fond of -- from the 60s and 70s -- they had small model lines and the same horn / filters / engines across all models (for the most part). VW should have one gas and one diesel 4-cyl, one gas one diesel 6-cyl, and no 8-cyl engines at all. They should just keep the 5th gen chassis around for the NA new bigger cars -- and basically just make them seem bigger but built on the existing Jetta platform. This reduces cost, reface them like they do Skodas (which are all MkIVs for the most part) and sell them cheaper than the signature lineup -- the actual Jetta, Passat, etc -- the cars that keep evolving ... the "world cars" if you will, but the US big sellers will be obsolete technology wise and reliable, dependable, and cheap.

That is how Toyota has largely gotten their success rate, you find a lot of similar parts from a 93 in a 03. Ford was much the same. VW deviated fro this and look at them now.

Simple engine options. Lots of car models based on the same chasis/platform, just for the US = VW @ 700,000+ units/year.

VW needs more Corolla-like cars (that don't act Corolla-like) where the Camry is the showcase of new and aaaaahh!

But everyone disagrees with me on that. Yet all I ever hear are "my 6x Bug was the most dependable car." and Sometimes I hear "my 8x Jetta diesel was the best car, why I ever let it go I don't know."

You solve electrical issues when you don't change things, and Americans obviously despise change. 6 models that keep up with the trends, 12 that are face lifted last-gen vehicles that are cheap to operate.

That is what would save VW. This should start with a TDI Sharon van to replace the Tiguan, and sell it fully loaded (by fully loaded I mean it DOES NOT have DVD system and all that crap) for $20,895 and you've got yourself a winner.

[German_1er_diesel]

Originally Posted by kcfoxie

This reduces cost, reface them like they do Skodas (which are all MkIVs for the most part) and sell them cheaper than the signature lineup

Skoda still makes the MKIV Octavia, but only as a sepearate "el cheapo" model if you absolutely want to save a few ****s over the current model. They have the same high tech as the VWs, same touchscreen nav, etc... The Octavia got the CR TDI long before the Golf/Jetta. The Fabia was the first car featuring the new Polo platform, more than a year earlier.

[kcfoxie]

Well, I stand corrected on that.

Point remains.