www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums TDIFAQ Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 26th, 2009, 10:38   #1
deltatech
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jefferson NJ
Default 2004 TDI Jetta timing belt change. Please advise me.

I have a 2004 Jetta TDI automatic and love it. It just passed 80k. When should I change the timing belt? The book says 100k? I'm an experianced aircraft mechanic and plan on doing it myself but I want the best parts kit with all of the hardware and I hear that there is a timing belt video available. Where do I get special tools?
Any help/advise would be great!
deltatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 11:07   #2
dieselfueler
Veteran Member
 
dieselfueler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Greater Jenkinsville, SC Metroplex Area
Default

Tools:
www.dieselgeek.com

Parts:

www.tdiparts.com
www.boraparts.com
__________________

'04 PDWagon, RC3, VNT17,PD150 inj's,FO6S2 cam = 3rd gear wheel spin
356,000 miles

Respect, protect, and maintain complex systems - whether natural or of German design, to benefit from their full potential.
dieselfueler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 17:11   #4
PDJetta
Veteran Member
 
PDJetta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

100 K miles is the replacement interval.

--Nate
__________________
2004 Jetta GLS TDI 5M Plat. Grey w/ Leather. RC Stage 2, G60/VR-6 clutch, steel skid plate, TDIHeater, CAT 2um fuel flter, Phat Noise, and VDO boost & volt guages.
PDJetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2009, 12:48   #5
corrado tdi
 
corrado tdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Antonio, Texas, U.S.A.
Fuel Economy: 43ish overall
Default

We carry the full parts kits and the tool sets, one stop shopping.
__________________
Jim Royston
www.dieselgeek.com

2015 Solar white MK7 Golf TDI 4 door with Sigma 6 shifter, MK7 Panzer skid plate, no dang sunroof
corrado tdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 08:41   #6
CGK
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina
Default

It's a pretty straight forward job. Having an engine bridge to raise the engine makes it a whole lot easier. You can use a floor jack under the oil pan but that can be risky and certainly is not as stable as the bridge.
Props to Jim at dieselgeek.com!!
I've used his kits, tools and short shift kits. Absolutely the best service and parts I have found!! Especially the water pump extraction kit that is included with the timing belt replacement kit. Best thing in the world to easily remove your water pump. Good Luck
CGK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 09:39   #7
PDJetta
Veteran Member
 
PDJetta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

"It's a pretty straight forward job. Having an engine bridge to raise the engine makes it a whole lot easier."

The official VW one referenced in Bentley is well over $1000. You can make one of these on the cheap with stuff from Lowes or Home Depot:







A 4X4 post, some half inch threaded eyelet bolts, nuts, washers, and a piece of 3/4-inch iron gas pipe, and some 2X4 scrap and angle brackets for the feet. The black iron pipe has three 1/2 inch holes drilled into it; one to hang it with all-thread, nuts, and washers from the 4X4; and two for the eyelet bolts to connect to the two lift points on the driver's side of the cylinder head. The third cylinder head lift point is on the right front, and the lone eyebolt in the 4 X 4 holds it. This may not be apparant in the pictures. Notice this is for the wider PD heads that have three lift points.

I used this on my clutch install, but I am breaking it out again for my timing belt replacement this weekend.
__________________
2004 Jetta GLS TDI 5M Plat. Grey w/ Leather. RC Stage 2, G60/VR-6 clutch, steel skid plate, TDIHeater, CAT 2um fuel flter, Phat Noise, and VDO boost & volt guages.

Last edited by PDJetta; June 29th, 2009 at 11:07.
PDJetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 05:22   #8
deltatech
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jefferson NJ
Default

Thanks for the info guys! The procedure PDF attached by MOgolf was informative and gives a pretty good step by step guide. I thought there was a video available? The engine hoist posted by PDJetta is a great idea and will be a good first step in this project. It dosn't look as bad as changing the clutch in my 89 Saturn.
Thanks again and please post any other thoughts.
Deltatech
deltatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2009, 14:46   #9
ninedee_golf_tdi
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stafford Virginia 22556
Default

Use a floor jack, it's easier and more convenient.
ninedee_golf_tdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2009, 08:53   #10
TornadoRed
Veteran Member
 
TornadoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
Fuel Economy: 52/41/36 (492k miles)
Default

deltatech: the rule-of-thumb is to inspect at 80k miles, inspect again at 90k miles, and replace at 100k miles. If you replace a little early, that's okay -- as long as you are installing all the new parts that you get in a deluxe TB kit. But unless you see or hear something unusual, there shouldn't be a need to do the TB 20k miles early.

www.metalmanparts.com in Sunbury PA rents the timing belt tools. It hardly makes sense to buy them, unless they are going to be used several times.
__________________
'03 Golf with 492k miles: Kerma Bosio PP520, GT1749VB, Passenger Performance 2.5" DP, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Koni Reds, Recaros, Akebonos, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Hidden Hitch, Neuspeed, always Mobil 1 TDT
Foobert's TDI Hunt -- all Craigslist TDI ads nationwide -- TDI Trusted Mechanics by jwlionking
TornadoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2009, 10:37   #11
deltatech
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jefferson NJ
Default

Thanks for the reply TornadoRed. I looked at the belt and it looks fine - no cracking discoloration or wear. I hear that a common problem is that the water pump siezes and the belt burns up. I thought it was uncommon for the belt to break on it's own below 100k miles.
deltatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2009, 11:30   #12
PDJetta
Veteran Member
 
PDJetta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

This was my experience this weekend:

Yes, next time will be quite a bit faster. I have replaced several timing belts before (including an ALH TDI and the 1.6 liter IDI VW diesel), but the PD had me scratching my head a little. Especially figuring out the tensioner (triangular handled little) pin and how to insert it into the tensioner and wind up the tensioner (this is not used on the ALH engine). Initally I was also looking at the center of the tensioner and trying to align up something there to indicate the proper tension (this is where the tension indicator is on the ALH tensioner), and finally I saw the correct window and pointer off of the tensioner wheel and had a "DUH!" moment!

I used both the MoGolf writeup and the Bentley procedure. I totally misunderstood in Bently the item of lining up the camshaft sprocket with its timing mark on the back belt cover. I initally installed the belt on the cam, two cogs off, and could not get it to tension because it was out of adjustment on the cam. I thought I was one cog off. I then re-installed it and it was one cog off (I did not know it at the time) and everything locked down properly and was timed properly, but the cam sprocket adjustment was at the end of the bolt slots. I have no idea why the procedure says to rotate the cam CCW (to the left) fully in the adjustment slots. This is what caused my problems, causing me to be 2 teeth off.

I then figured out the perfect way to install it (after the tensioner has been properly pined and rotated clockwise): Lock the crank and cam, make sure the cam sprocket is indexed on its timing mark on the cover, install the belt on the crank, tensioner and waterpump. Next pull out the cam lock pin (the cam will not move) and completely remove the three cam pulley bolts and remove the pulley off of its hub (it will fall right off). Slip the pully into the belt and install it on the cam, belt in the grooves, with the pulley indexed against its marks on the back cover. Install the cam pulley bolts finger tight and reinstall the cam lock pin to make shure the cam did not move. You can not be off any belt teeth on the cam installing the belt this way and you will not have to wrestle the belt onto any of the pullys. Its so easy! The adjustment will be in the center of the cam bolt slots.

Next tension the tensioner properly and torque its nut and then tighten down the cam pulley bolts. Rotate the engine 2 times and recheck the timing. Adjust per the procedure if off.

I also discovered what Bently meant by you must only instert the crank lock by rotating the engine clockwise (it does work both ways, but it will be off if rotating CCW). If you pass TDC, do not try to insert the crank lock while backing up the crankshaft. The timing will be off. Back up the crank (turn CCW) a very small amount to BTDC and try again, nudging the crank CW while trying to engage the crank lock pin into the hole on the seal cover. If you engage the lock pin when rotating backwards, the play in the timing belt system will cause the timing to be off, since the normal engine rotation is CW.

After you do it, changing the PD timing belt is really easy! There is one less sprocket and idler to deal with than on the ALH engine. I learned from the ALH engine NOT TO REMOVE THE ENGINE MOUNT after its completely unbolted. Do not fight with it. I just worked around it this time, and after I pulled the water pump, I used the extra clearance from the WP hole in the block to thread the new belt around the motor mount.

I could not imagine changing the PD timing belt without the special tools. Spend the $85. Its great insurance.

--Nate
__________________
2004 Jetta GLS TDI 5M Plat. Grey w/ Leather. RC Stage 2, G60/VR-6 clutch, steel skid plate, TDIHeater, CAT 2um fuel flter, Phat Noise, and VDO boost & volt guages.

Last edited by PDJetta; July 10th, 2009 at 12:25.
PDJetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2009, 14:21   #13
TornadoRed
Veteran Member
 
TornadoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
Fuel Economy: 52/41/36 (492k miles)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltatech
Thanks for the reply TornadoRed. I looked at the belt and it looks fine - no cracking discoloration or wear. I hear that a common problem is that the water pump siezes and the belt burns up. I thought it was uncommon for the belt to break on it's own below 100k miles.
The inspection also involves some careful listening for squeals, chirps, or other unusual noises. If you're not sure what's unusual and what is not, then consult one of the TDI Club gurus/experts.
__________________
'03 Golf with 492k miles: Kerma Bosio PP520, GT1749VB, Passenger Performance 2.5" DP, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Koni Reds, Recaros, Akebonos, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Hidden Hitch, Neuspeed, always Mobil 1 TDT
Foobert's TDI Hunt -- all Craigslist TDI ads nationwide -- TDI Trusted Mechanics by jwlionking
TornadoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2009, 05:17   #14
deltatech
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jefferson NJ
Default

This sounds like good advice PDJetta. I'm always impressed with people who understand how things work well enough to be able to think for themselves and deviate from what the manuals say.
Good advice TornadoRed. I have used a dowl rod to listen for and find the smallest engine noises and that's how I will approach this.
Thanks again guys!
Keep any other advice coming!
Deltatech
deltatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18880 seconds with 9 queries
[Output: 119.78 Kb. compressed to 99.74 Kb. by saving 20.05 Kb. (16.74%)]