EDC15/16 PD Tuning

Hi all, just thought I'd introduce myself,

I've been reading the TDiClub forum for quite a while now but have never had anything genuinely worthwhile to contribute. For the past few years I've been studying the EDC15/16 based ecu's used on the now obsolete (but not dead!) pump duese engines.

Information on how the Bosch EDC ECU's work is notoriously thin on the ground as most of the people in the know seem to think this is what keeps them in business (excluding bosch r&d engineers of course!).

I've made it a mission to log and document the workings of the EDC ecu's, noting map locations and functions. Translating damos and generally pulling stuff apart.

Looking back it would have been great for someone to give me some kind of guidance, so if anyone here is wanting to learn more about tuning EDC15 / EDC16 ECU's the safe way please don't hesitate to contact me. Don't just get a galletto/kwp2000 cloned tool from ebay and buy a dvd full of 'tuned' files and think you are saving yourself a shed load of cash (or make a shed load of cash), only go down the self tune route if you are prepared to learn, pile hours in to reading and logging.

Don't get me wrong, the galletto is a copy of a decent official tool. I spent thousands on an official tool (Optican) but it seems the Galletto clone I bought on ebay does exactly the same job, with the exception that the Optican has the ability to resurrect failed flashes.

If there is enough interest and the Administration will let me I'll publish everything I've found, here in a guide. I'll cover software (that is free and legal to use), searching for maps, what they do, what to log with vag com and where to start extracting power from your PD engine without going beyond it's limits.

Basically I want to share everything I have learned with as many people as I can, if there is information I provide that is wrong, I expect and am more than happy to be corrected. I'm asking for nothing in return but that the information is used at your own risk and if you screw your car you don't blame the proprietor of this site.

Let me know if anyone's interested, everyone has to start somewhere.

PD Dude

Hi and welcome!!

I think what you are proposing would be invaluable to this forum and many many members with said ecu's/motors............it would also interest people who are doing conversion into mk1's 2's 3's scirocco's etc etc.

As i see it although most people will leave the tuning to the tuners at least people will be armed with questions on what needs to be done in a certain scinario or to reach a certain level of performance on a standard vehical and more importently a motor that has had various hardware/mods installed to it............fare play to you imho!!

Cheers for the positive feedback mate,

I tried once before to make this type of info available on a different forum (not going to mention names!) but because a lot of the forum sponsors where tuners my thread was closed. They argued it was because they didn't want forum members wrecking their ecu's, which I thought was a fair point but a simple disclimaimer at the top of the page would have been all that was needed. In the space of a few hour that it was open I got tonnes of people PM'ing for more info.

Ideally in the future I want to recruit like minded individuals, set up a wiki and chart ecu software/hardware number against all the major map locations/switches/annoying single value limiter locations, maybe even start something like the subaru boys have with their open source editing & checksum software and tactrix style cables. Anyone can be taught to find maps within an ecu dump.

Re-flashing an ecu doesn't require that much skill and lately it's become easy money for people who buy 'generic' maps and flash them to cars without a clue as to what is being changed. The real skill however is making an engine run alot better than it did before, infact it's more than a skill, it's an art.

If I take the secrecy away from the workings of the ecu's it forces tuners to make sure their maps are better than their competitors instead of relying on price to get people in. Conversely though, it could produce a glut of cowboys. At least people would be able to ask the right questions during the tuning process to see if the tuner really knows what they are doing.

There is a few people who I've helped learn how to map their cars themselves. Through religiously logging and making changes over a period of months we have achieved maps far superior to most generic file 'tuners'.

As with everything in life some things are much more rewarding if you do it yourself.

Anyway, all interest is welcome!

Well! if you take a read of our FAQ there is already a warning/disclimaimer that guards against going to far with boost pressure on the eo turbos etc.......i also see this info no more than this and although i can't speak for the powers to be i don't see a problem as this is an increadibly open forum when it comes to tuning tdi/diesels compared to some! but i do have a couple of good clues/ideas on which forum/s your talking about...............lol.

Hey great idea. I had plans to open my own tuning forum, and charge a nominal maintenance fee or membership to join. I would post sample mappings and information and also explain some bad examples from other tuners too.

I would simply let folks make their own tunings, and send them to me to calculate checksums for $$, and mail them back fixed and ready to download. Wow I could collect many files this way? Oh, I already have lots of good files, and no time for this ;-(

Good luck! There are already several good tuning forums that provide these exact services, but language barriers exist.

As Dr Phil says, "what is your payoff" in all of this? Please show us your dyno's and timeslips, and fuel savings, etc, etc, etc - and we will listen ;-)

Anybody can tune, but you must understand ICE, and SI/CI concepts, and a little engineering and wrenching background always helps too. One day I will write a book or two regarding software tuning, and hardware engine developments when I can no longer wrench or tune.

I also hope someday to develop a seminar/class where I can "train-the-trainer" for Diesel technology, beyond just regurgitating shop manuals on slides.

Jeff

JEFF!! you've spoilt all the fun now!!

mojogoes said:

JEFF!! you've spoilt all the fun now!!

Click to expand...

No, I wanted to do this along time ago, but the investement is huge. Get a bunch of smart car guys to pitch in for tools. That's the show stopper, not the mapping identifications. I think the biggest problem with the tdiclub, is most guys don't have grease under the fingernails, or the passion to race, their cars - they just drive them to work every day, and never see the track. They can't be broke down for a week or month at a time, etc, etc, etc. Like I always say, you want something done right, you higher the best or do it yourself ;-)

Jeff

Are you willing to "donate" so much work?
Hours of logs and testing and probably dynos?

Ok , I dont mind lol

What is the offset you use on TDI130 SOI map? lol

Regards

Cool, a nice open forum where you can share this kind of info without fear of admin censorship

Hi Jeff, having a subscription site would be good to make money but I'm not too fussed for making money at this stage. I do alright at the moment, extra cash is always nice but I want to keep this info as open as possible.

I run linux based servers and have plenty of bandwidth so I've no real overheads in running a small wiki/forum.

My long term plan does include writing my own editing software. It'll most likely be *nix based which could open up all sorts of possibilities like OS X ports etc... Any money I make from software would have to go into funding affordable OBD/BDM hardware. Then we'd have the complete package; editing at shareware costs, GNU licensed checksum calculator and quality, affordable tools for reading/writing.

Anyway, to get the ball rolling & to get people interested if you have taken a read from any PD engined car (EDC15P/P+/16u34 etc...), post the BIN up (if that is allowed) and I'll post up the locations of as many maps as I can find. I'll include references to ones for different engine codings higher/lower in the BIN. I'll try and include the axis definitions and a pretty 3d view aswell.

later tonight (GMT), if I stay sober enough, I'll post up map locations of my favourite PD engine the PD160 BPX. If not it'll be tomorrow morning.

P.S- I've dabbled with the new piezo common rail before but my comfort zone is PD so no CR's just yet people. Don't get me started on the Siemens PPD out of the 2.0 170 engines tho, if you've one of these and would like to share the inner workings, or even where to begin looking for info let us know

Just noticed Artur's post while I've been composing this post, asking for the start of injection offset's. I'd have to ask what the hardware/software no.s to give you accurate info. So if you post a BIN I'll happily tell you everything I can find. If there is any mistakes please point them out, I'd never profess to being a 'pro', I'm just an enthusiast. There's no ego to break here.

Cheers people

PD Dude

I've just realised that not everyone can post attachments; I know I can't (being a new member). You can use mediafire or any of it's competitors if you'd like and just post the link.

Cheers

As you probably know , some maps are there but need a offset and a correction factor.
The thing is that TDI130 the factor and offset have a.. lets say.. stupid factor and offset where the TDI140 is just x2.

Will wait for your TDI160 maps to see what you found

Regards

ArturCosta!! that'll be because of a little gizmo in a certain part of the exhaust pipe then

mojogoes said:

ArturCosta!! that'll be because of a little gizmo in a certain part of the exhaust pipe then

Click to expand...

what

I think Steve is hinting at a DPF which isn`t on the PD160.

devonmikeyboy said:

I think Steve is hinting at a DPF which isn`t on the PD160.

Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with this maps corrections.

With or without DPF the SOI map is there on every 2.0TDI easy to read and tune , where the TDI130 has a stupid offset.
What Im starting to notice is that EDC16 comes like that... easy to read, and the EDC15 comes with that stupid values.

I can post latter a pic of both maps.

Regards

devonmikeyboy said:

I think Steve is hinting at a DPF which isn`t on the PD160.

Click to expand...

Cheers for the correction Mike! yes my mistake.





Costa your learning tooooo fast now / these days

mojogoes said:

Cheers for the correction Mike! yes my mistake.





Costa your learning tooooo fast now / these days

Click to expand...

I think it is really true what they say "the more parts you break the more you learn"


BTW , before I post the maps here , can some on point what is the SOI of a TDI130 at 4000rpm for 60mg (or 55mg) ?
I dont have here the remap software but it is more less 21º BTDC and the TDI140 is 20º...

Regards,

This is intresting Actually the most intresting threads in a long while.

Welcome to the board.

ArturCosta said:

I think it is really true what they say "the more parts you break the more you learn"


BTW , before I post the maps here , can some on point what is the SOI of a TDI130 at 4000rpm for 60mg (or 55mg) ?
I dont have here the remap software but it is more less 21º BTDC and the TDI140 is 20º...

Regards,

Click to expand...

At what coolant temperature you want the values

BadAss said:

At what coolant temperature you want the values

Click to expand...

It has like 8 or 10 maps for that... but another stupid thing.. they are all the same

Well I just opened the software... in a Audi A4 130 it asks for 23,86º BTDC at 4000rpm for 60mg... and a Audi A4 115 asks for 25,85...

Is my correction factor wrong?

Regards

BTW its not coolant temp its fuel temp

ArturCosta said:

BTW its not coolant temp its fuel temp

Click to expand...

Who says?

...Auswahl ***/KTF (0/1) is it this you're looking after

Altough boostcontrol in EDC16 can be sometimes really inspiring, so if you could explain the exact workings of that I'm a happy man..

Or so a block diagram of edc15 PID control for boost..

Some logs done on the road

I find this really interesting, even though I have no clue about the innards of anything computerized.

I'm not sure a "forum" like this is the best place to post your findings - not that I'm against the idea (I'm mildly concerned about copyright), it's just that you will probably find that every different ECU version will have its own peculiarities and warrant its own discussion area.

What if you set up a wiki site or your own discussion forum (friends of mine have done it - I know not a thing about it but it can't be that hard) and link to it from here? Then you can put yourself with administrative access control, so you can manage the discussion (which you will need to do - I guarantee it! - but I KNOW that none of the moderators here have the technical knowledge to even be able to tell if someone is BS'ing). You need someplace to store and link to files, also.

I'm not sure whether dissecting something is an infringement of copywrite. Maybe to start I'll just create a simple wiki and link from here.

Remember I'm no pro tuner, there's stuff I don't know because I've no means of getting that information or I've not found it yet. If anything I'm looking to expand my knowledge by offering what little I know and hoping someone will either find it usefull and add what they know or if there are any corrections people will put them forward.

ArturCosta said:

It has like 8 or 10 maps for that... but another stupid thing.. they are all the same

Well I just opened the software... in a Audi A4 130 it asks for 23,86º BTDC at 4000rpm for 60mg... and a Audi A4 115 asks for 25,85...

Is my correction factor wrong?

Regards

Click to expand...

It's not fuel temp for sure. Is checked with emulator. When u pull the plug for coolant temperature u see instantly what happens

And compared to my factor and offset yours is slightly off.

you can easily change between coolant temp and fuel temp, 8bit switch.. oem is zero in my ASZ file, so it seems oem is coolant temp..

038906019ms 0281011852 (bpx - Pd160)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?wjotjty1nkk

I've not included axis description, I'll follow up with these when I get a chance, alot are Injected Quantity (mg/hub). Also not included the different engine coding here but it's similar offsets later on in the file. No time at the moment, I'm on lunch!

---------------------
Drivers Wish
4D244



---------------------
Start of Injection I view this with a factor of -0.01
(10 14x16 completely back to back selected on coolant temperature coolest first)
(Axis headers for each - Y Axis 5885A / X Axis 5887E - I assume this is right?)

5919A
5935A
5951A
596DA
5989A
59A5A
59C1A
59DDA
59F9A
5A15A



---------------------
Injection Duration
there are 4 maps, can someone tell us on what basis these are chosen?

(Viewed with the factor 0.023438)

547DE
54A64
54CEA
54F70



---------------------
Injection Duration Limiter
(Viewed with the factor 0.023438)

546D0



---------------------
EGR Map

4C116



---------------------
N75 Map

56FAC



---------------------
Smoke Limit Map

4DCCE



---------------------
Torque Limit

4D956



---------------------
Turbo Map

56CA0



following on...

... (damn 10 image limit)
---------------------
Turbo Limiter

573CE



---------------------
Single Value Boost Limiter

51D48

These are just some of the key maps used in most PD tunes, I'll try follow this up as soon as I get a spare moment.

Cheers

There is no such thing as a duration limiter.. and look at the SOI maps as 4D