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Old April 17th, 2009, 20:26   #1
whitedog
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Default Wiring diagrams

I need some feedback, Peeps. I may have the opportunity to spend some time digging into the wiring diagrams and putting individual circuits on one page. I just hate digging through page after page in the Bentely going from here to there to figure out the power flow. I have started with a starting system diagram for a 98 New Beetle, but if I had the information, I could get it all drawn out. Here is what I have done so far:



I think that this would be a worthwhile project but I would need some assistance. I don't like the graph paper for the final drawings and I don't know if I would have access to a CAD program to get it drawn up nice and neat, so I would need someone to help with that. If you want to volunteer, let me know.

Secondly, I would need some technical assistance to be sure that everything is correct. I have given thought to trying to put in test points and excpected voltage readings, but I'm not sure how much of that I can do myself. Again, let me know if you can help.

This isn't something that will be happening in the next few weeks, or even the next few months, but I certainly want to get it going this year, so let me know your thoughts. If you go to my pictures here, you can see a bigger picture that you can read better.

I also need some help up front. I need to know if what I have there is understandable by the average person here. Does it make sense and could you trace out the wiring on that? What other information is needed to help make it clear to everyone?

Give me some feedback and lets see if this thing will be doable.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 20:57   #2
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I think this is kind of a cool project. I have never liked the VW wiring diagrams. I'd help where I can when I can.

I found this software. It has a 30 day trial and cost $40 to register. It looks like it might do everything you need.

http://www.diagramstudio.com/wiring_...m_software.htm
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Old April 17th, 2009, 21:04   #3
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IF I am able to go through with this project, I don't think that I would be able to do the CAD drawings; there are roadblocks that may inhibit that ability for me. As things settle down in the coming months, I'll have more information and can go forward from there, but right now, I'm trying to get some things in place for when (if) I can actually do this.

Thanks Matthew for your support. As I learn more, I'll keep in touch.

From a technical standpoint, what are your initial thoughts on that beta drawing?
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Old April 17th, 2009, 21:37   #4
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Whitedog, I admire your courage and wish you success with the project.

My story and experience with a TDI wiring harness (2001 Jetta):

Back in late Janaury of this year, I all but shipped my wiring harness to be modified for a TDI installion in my Vanagon. I had issues with the local Post Office.

So, after giving it considerable thought and no experience with automotive wiring diagrams, I began the process of doing the job myself.

First off, I made working copies of 33 pages of diagrams (enlarged them so I could see and make notes on them). There are 13 pages related to the "engine" and 20 pages related to "standard equipment." Also, about 5 pages dealing with the AC. During the numerous hours of studying the diagrams, making notes, working with the wiring harness, I began to learn how they work, splices, color coding, switches, connectors, relays, etc. I also have typed eleven pages of notes on various components

At first the diagrams were so overwhelming that I almost gave up. But, during the month of February, almost everyday for three or four hours, I studied various circuits, components, etc., from the enlarged diagrams.

I am not an expert by no means, but the 101 in "self education" of automotive wiring diagrams will be most helpful with challenges on down the road, especially with the Vanagon!

I'll keep up with your project and comment if I think it will be helpful.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 05:54   #5
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Is this kinda what you are looking for? The scaling is a bit off and I couldn't really read all of your text so I left it un-labeled. Some symbols I didn't have but could always make when the need arises. It is a fairly big undertaking you are proposing but if you wish to take the time to flip through pages and draw out the circuits, I'll offer to convert to digital and create .pdf files so long as I can post it on my website as well? Props would remain yours. LMK

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Old April 18th, 2009, 06:12   #6
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Whitedog, I love that drawing. The whole system operation is explained at a glance. Perhaps others could take one circuit and do the same, then the whole project could be compiled. I could take a page or two and fax/email the result to the draftsman.

Ookpic, I think the drawing benefits from your efforts. As you said, scaling and possibly a few new symbols with lables and you have a first class product.

Let the games begin.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 07:53   #7
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Andy, yes this is an ambitious project and I wish that I had thought of it months ago when I knew that I had the resources. In the coming months, changes will be made and I am unsure of what I will be able to do, but I will try to get this worked on. Right now, I'm just seeing if others will be able to help with things like Matthew and Ookpic have mentioned.

Ookpic, you rock. Your drawing looks nice with just the few technical glitches I mentioned in the PM. (Oh and the motor really should be round) Your offer of hosting is supurb. If this works out like I dream, anyone could go to that site and search for whatever wiring diagram they need and see it all on one page and have all of the testing information right there rather than digging through pages and flipping back and forth and tying to find what the heck a J393 is and how it gets power, etc.

Do you have access to a Bentley? It has a page with all of the symbols. Possibly you could use that to make them?

Another thought I had is that I don't see a copyright issue with this since we would be taking information and compiling it into something that looks completely different. Does that sound right?

Lastly, again, I need some feedback from folks that aren't real good with this stuff to let us know if it's understandable and what could possibly be done to make it more understandable for the layman.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 09:21   #8
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Yes have Bentley, will look up symbols. Print was just a quicky and made due with symbols in list. Currently acquiring couple of different softwares to "trial" out and see which one is the nicest. I'll tweek the above sometime today if I get a chance and put it up again.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 10:27   #9
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Please try the software I have on my website.

http://killabytes.ca/cmstudnt.exe

I use this software daily. Everything can be labelled and vaules can be shown.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 18:56   #10
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Mitchell On-Demand takes OEM schematics and redraws them to a understandable format, for specific systems. Unfortunatly printing them and distributing them is not allowed.

On a side not the format is consistant between makes so its understandable whether I'm working on


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedog
Andy, yes this is an ambitious project and I wish that I had thought of it months ago when I knew that I had the resources. In the coming months, changes will be made and I am unsure of what I will be able to do, but I will try to get this worked on.
Ambitious but admireable project. How on earth would you have the time for this?
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Old April 19th, 2009, 09:11   #11
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We are trying to find symbols. We have them in the paper Bentley, but I cannot find them in the electronic version and Ookpic would prefer that over his scanned versions.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 23:04   #12
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Dog, I actually did this a bit with the heated seat wiring. I'm having trouble pulling up the diagram though....
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Old April 20th, 2009, 02:52   #13
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What I would be looking for is a single page from the Bentley manual. The paper manual shows it as 97-14 and 97-15. This page is a legend for all symbols used in the wiring diagrams. (My personal favourite is the dual filament light bulb).

I'll be creating all symbols and then importing them to either visio or smartdraw. So far Visio is the easier one to use but Smartdraw has better UI and most likely just a steeper learning curve to get it to do what I want.

Anywho, if I have a digital copy of this page possibly some zoom shots of the symbols as well, that would be awesome! Save me creating them all by hand. I would get the eBahn to compliment my paper version however we are unsure whether this page exists in the DVD version.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 17:03   #14
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Check out TinyCAD for drawing. That, or any other free (as in speech) schematic capture software is worth looking at. Dr. Wik E. Pedia knows about a few of them.

Dia is Visio inspired if you prefer a more UML-like method. There are plenty of other open UML/schematic capture suites, just take a look with your favorite search engine.

Here's the "How to read wiring diagrams" document from Ebahn. Pp. 4-6 has the list of all symbols.

Last edited by jcrews; April 20th, 2009 at 17:18.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 19:32   #15
whitedog
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Default Power circuit

Somehting else that I think would be helpful would be a general power circuit. The following is just a partial, but I'm throwing it up there for feedback.



I wouldn't have things like "glow plug relay" then "glow plugs" but would rather just have "glow plug circuit".

What other things should be on this? I'm thinking that this would be a good resource for tracking down an amp draw.

I think that I will listen to what Matthew said and skip dropping all of the grounds to the bottom. It could get very difficult in more complicated systems so it would be best to maintain continuity. (unintentional, but very nice pun )

Last edited by whitedog; April 20th, 2009 at 19:34.
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