www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 7th, 2009, 15:24   #1
TheoSweden
Veteran Member
 
TheoSweden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
TDI(s): A3Q,A4Q
Default Complicated EGT talk etc.

I seem to have come to a point where my engine isnt making any more reliable power. What I mean by that is that foremost my EGTs is getting to hot if we(me and my tuner) get the power any higher.

Some of you have followed my project and know pretty well what parts I have... My changes to this year is a new exhaust manifold, and stock intake manifold again. Looks like this:



With the same tune as last year, I got exactly the effect I was hoping to get, much better response and not so laggy turbo/spoolup meaning less smoke when changing gear etc. 28mmID pipes and almost as short as possible, not the best collector, but not that bad eather if you ask me Have no better pictures I'm afraid..

After some testing we can now make the car run very good, and also be pretty fast witout any problems, I had spoolup problems last year wich now is gone away with a correct working map sensor. So far so god.

My "problem" is that this car is going to be used on the circuit a few (hopefully many) times, and to have a big engine failure is not an option.
The chassis, tires, breaks is pretty fast on this car and a much stronger engine might fit good.
This makes it possible to take out maximum power almost all the time wich put STRESS on the engine, not even close to the stress that is possible to get on the street(Autobahn not included)
And... I can only have around 220hp(butt dyno) before EGT wants to reach 900deg pretty fast even on the street! 900deg.C seem to me as some kind of maximum EGT to be safe. Right/Wrong?

At this powerlevel my car is almost smoke free accept lowest gears and gear changes, I like that... But if we try a bit more fuel and so, 240-250 hp is no problem, and to make my Helix cluch(now sintered) slip is possible also! But the downside is mainly EGTs and the big black clowd behind the car.

So what do you guys think is the best for me to do? Both me and my tuner think my engine should perform better but something is limiting me. Or am I just to wimpy and should be harder to the engine? Water/meth injection? Better intercooler and piping? change back to D24 intake?

I'm realy glad if you could give me some advices what to do to get this wonderful power I can have, but with great reliability!

Just ask if something is unclear...

//Theo
__________________
TDI Project: VW Golf 1 - 83
Track/Ice racer: Audi A3 TDI Q - 02 ~280hp
Daily driver: Audi A4 TDI Q - 08 ~300hp
TheoSweden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 15:34   #2
mojogoes
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: england
TDI(s): mk3 tdi golf
Fuel Economy: not much
Default

Why not try a larger turbo!
__________________
A3 / mk3 golf with 249Whp "Now in the hands of someone else"
mojogoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 16:04   #3
Rub87
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Belgium
Default

I'd definatly go back to the D24 intake.. if your egt is to high for the power you have, it can have some reasons//

1. to long injection window
2. wrong timing (too late)
3. not enough air (boost)
4. to much EMP
5. bad atomisation
6. a combination of these
__________________
'99 Black Ibiza GT90: 2260v, ARL bottomend, rosten rods 81mm slugs, 17:1 CR, 35/38mm exh/in valves, 02M, 305mm discs with Brembo calipers, OZ Superturismo 16"x7.5J, .............
Dyno'd area, Old VNT20 setup dyno'd 192whp
Rub87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 16:19   #4
vwmikel
 
vwmikel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Default

A contributor to your problems may also be that turbo. There was a reason why I abandoned it. How much boost are you running?
__________________


vwmikel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 16:28   #5
mojogoes
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: england
TDI(s): mk3 tdi golf
Fuel Economy: not much
Default

I think just one....

1/ Larger turbo needed!
__________________
A3 / mk3 golf with 249Whp "Now in the hands of someone else"
mojogoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 16:45   #6
orion2.0
Veteran Member
 
orion2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: syracuse, NY
Fuel Economy: 50mpg
Default

yeah...why did you remove the d24 manifold and go back to the stock manifold? I would think the d24 would flow more air = lower egt's.

Maybe try a bigger IC or water injection.
orion2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 17:18   #7
ArturCosta
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portugal
Fuel Economy: (7.5L/100)(5.5L/100)(4.9L/100)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2.0
yeah...why did you remove the d24 manifold and go back to the stock manifold? I would think the d24 would flow more air = lower egt's.

Maybe try a bigger IC or water injection.
I was going to say that.
From what I remember from your project you have more less the same IC I have... if so I would suggest you to change it as its not the most efficient for the power your wont to get.

A "simple" ibiza cupra intercooler would get you over 230bhp with that turbo with "normal" EGTs.

The Air Fuel ratio on this cars also make a huge diference , from your videos I can say you are not smoking enought (I was read you talking about bad portugues tuners... but its seems like now you get it!).
Let it smoke a bit more at the high end and you will probably lower the EGTs enought.

Regards
__________________
Artur Costa
Audi A4 1.9TDi(110bhp) 1996

GT1852vb , PP764+T4 Injectors+hammer mod ,260 dbilas cam, 450nm kevlar clutch , 5speed TDI115 gearbox, 60mm inox exhaust pipe , fuel cooler,oil cooler , 5L FMIC
ArturCosta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 17:29   #8
vwmikel
 
vwmikel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturCosta
Let it smoke a bit more at the high end and you will probably lower the EGTs enought.
I think you have it backwards....more smoke = higher EGT's.
__________________


vwmikel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 17:38   #9
ArturCosta
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portugal
Fuel Economy: (7.5L/100)(5.5L/100)(4.9L/100)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwmikel
I think you have it backwards....more smoke = higher EGT's.
Im talking about more smoke... not MORE SMOKE!

If you have unburned fuel on the turbine it will cool it... off course if you have too much it will not help.

I can show you some cars dynoing without smoke and you can see flames out of the exhaust... once you let it smoke a little EGTs go down buy a significant amount then you just have to get the correct A/R.

Regards,
__________________
Artur Costa
Audi A4 1.9TDi(110bhp) 1996

GT1852vb , PP764+T4 Injectors+hammer mod ,260 dbilas cam, 450nm kevlar clutch , 5speed TDI115 gearbox, 60mm inox exhaust pipe , fuel cooler,oil cooler , 5L FMIC
ArturCosta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 18:21   #10
Gearhead51
Veteran Member
 
Gearhead51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Suwanee (Atlanta), GA
TDI(s): 2000 Jetta
Default

I'm confused. I always thought:
High EGT = too much fuel in a Diesel
High EGT = too little fuel in a Gasser.
__________________
'00 Silver Jetta TDI on Ground Control coilovers, Koni Yellows, B&M shifter, Audi R8 reps, and VNT20 ST2b. R520. '99.5 F350 with injectors, 4page chip, intake, and exhaust, '00 Honda RC51 in race plastics, Ducati 1098S, '94 RX7 436RWHP Rotary 4 life!
Gearhead51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 22:28   #11
SBAtdijetta
Veteran Member
 
SBAtdijetta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Fuel Economy: Best 51.4mpg, AVG 38+ and climbing
Default

Bigger FMIC, bigger turbo, water/meth, or nitrous! Or all of the above?
__________________
10 Jetta TDI 6spd Cup - Tune, Turbo back Exh, BBS, etc
02 Jetta TDI Auto beater - Stock - Soon to be for sale
06 Jetta TDI 5spd - VNT2556,PD150 Injectors,3"TB,Pelq.,etc., Never dynoed in final config. - Sold
Need help? I have VAG-COM
SBAtdijetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 22:37   #12
ndamico
 
ndamico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Bigger turbo, and run straight water only if you have to.. BUT NO METH.. water alone works great for cooling as long as you don't you too much. but my guess is your turbo is just too small or inefficient.

twins could be possible too. they work well for heavy towing applications to reduce EGT.
__________________
03 Golf 1 Micron Fuel Filter Kit and Nozzles, , DC Stage 4 Clutch, 6-Speed, Peloquin
14 Passat SE 6-Speed
ARP Head Studs
ndamico is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 22:41   #13
Farfromovin
Torque Addict
 
Farfromovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego
Fuel Economy: low: 35 high: 56 avg: 42.0
Default

I follow Ruben's train of thought. However, if your tuner is at his wit's end, you'll need to step up the turbo to alleviate those problems. A nice snow performance w/m kit could help lasso down EGT's though. When my W/M was working, it was like an EGT brick wall. A controller that ran off a thermocouple input would be best IMO. I'm probably looking at going that route soon as well.
__________________

[/old setup]212whp/354 ft-lbs14.862@96.677-Way faster than Chris [/new setup] At least 213whp, and way way faster than Chris.
Farfromovin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2009, 00:12   #14
vwmikel
 
vwmikel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Default



This is the compressor map for the BMW GT2260V. Notice that it is already at 145,000 RPM to make a 2.6 pressure ratio (about 23 psig) yet that drops significantly as flow increases. We need more in the range of 25-30 lbs/min but that area drops off to a max pressure ratio of ~1.9-2.3 (13.23-19.11 psig). So, efficiency just falls off a cliff right where we need it. This turbo seemed like a good way to go when all I had to go off were educated guesses, but in retrospect I would steer clear.
__________________


vwmikel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2009, 03:53   #15
Rub87
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Belgium
Default

So Theo should mount another compressorwheel on it..

Still waiting for somebody to try this baby it might carry some inertia, but if you can make enough revs with a good head and cam^^

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...52234_comp.gif
__________________
'99 Black Ibiza GT90: 2260v, ARL bottomend, rosten rods 81mm slugs, 17:1 CR, 35/38mm exh/in valves, 02M, 305mm discs with Brembo calipers, OZ Superturismo 16"x7.5J, .............
Dyno'd area, Old VNT20 setup dyno'd 192whp
Rub87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16068 seconds with 9 queries
[Output: 128.77 Kb. compressed to 107.19 Kb. by saving 21.58 Kb. (16.76%)]