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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old March 29th, 2009, 14:27   #1
Texas_sky
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ATX/Mile Hi
Fuel Economy: unknown at the time, waiting for engine swap
Default White Smoke and Extra Rough Vibration/Idle on Cold Start then Runs Normal when Warm??

All the sudden car just started doing this, I had a bad oil leak but always checked the oil and kept it near the full mark or at least on the dipstick. Recently replaced turbo, I had the piston and rod replaced with new headgasket and headbolts/rod bearings back at 123k, currently at 140k, I recently had a compression test preformed while engine was warm with results of 500 on each cylinder. Oil leak has been fixed but leaks a little under the vaccum pump (gasket replaced but still drips) Basically what happens is the car runs really rough and blows a ton of white smoke, when engine reachs a certain temp the engine switches over to normal, its almost automatic, like it runs rough then all the sudden everything is fine. Before I had the rod replaced the car emmitted black smoke into the air, now its white. I'm hoping the lower half of the engine is fine, just need to replace head? Timing is correct, both on belt and injection pump, just had that set 1k miles back but it was out of timing for quite sometime. Timing belt has never broke. Another thing I forgot to mention is before this issue came about the engine was always unusually quiet when I start it then when it warms up it starts to sound like a tdi. Should I run a cold compression test?
Please post comments/opinions/advice... thanks!

New Piston #2, New Headgasket, rod bearings, torqued to proper spec 17k back
Coolant Temp Sensor replaced with green one 17k back
New Rebuilt Garret vnt 15 turbo 2k back

Last edited by Texas_sky; March 29th, 2009 at 14:37.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 14:30   #2
whitedog
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bend, Or.
Fuel Economy: 42 Jetta, 47 Beetle
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Recheck the timing. If the advance piston is sticking, you can set the timing, then come back later and it will be off the graph. Reset and repeat. This will require a pump rebuild so I hope that I'm wrong.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 14:33   #3
Texas_sky
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Timing was checked twice and reset to proper spec last weekend.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 14:35   #4
whitedog
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Did it change each time? Is that why you reset it?
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Old March 29th, 2009, 18:01   #5
runonbeer
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Fuel Economy: amazing/excellent/still pretty good
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I had to pop the cam sprocket off and move the pump pulley one tooth over (re-center it) to get the timing on the graph.

He told me this engine ingested a lot of water at one point. I suspect a bent rod, but don't know how to confirm it short of pulling the head and measuring deck height. He also said that it ran fine after they put the #2 rod in and it only started with the jumpy cold idle after the recent turbo replacement. It reminded me of Gus' (NorthernSky) car when he had a bent rod after a blown turbo. the engine just sort of hops up and down a little.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 18:08   #6
runonbeer
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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Hmmm, wonder if I could adapt a dial indicator to thread into the glow plug hole and weather that would give me a meaningful measurement.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 18:29   #7
whitedog
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Fuel Economy: 42 Jetta, 47 Beetle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runonbeer
Hmmm, wonder if I could adapt a dial indicator to thread into the glow plug hole and weather that would give me a meaningful measurement.
You would have to get a measurement of the full travel to know and I don't htink that you can do that at that angle.

Since Robby did the timing, you are in good hands; he knows how to check for sticky advance solenoids. how about a simple compression check?
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Old March 29th, 2009, 19:13   #8
Texas_sky
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Rob did a compression test, came up w/ positive results. I'm gonna replace the coolant temp sensor again to see if this helps. Engine literally goes from extreme vibration seats shaking to 100% normal when it hits the 190 mark on the temp gauge. Could possibly be a short from the wiring to the ecu from the CTS. When you have a bent rod do you normally get a misfire code? last time my rod was bent I had a misfire code. So far no codes since leaving the shop in Austin. Fuel economy seems to be down a little.


Update: Just went outside after letting car sit for 3 hours cranked it, it ran rough for a minute then switched over to smooth with the temp only reading less then quarter on the gauge, then I let it sit for about 45-hour in 50 degree weather and cranked it and it ran rough again till i could get it back up to normal operating temp.

Last edited by Texas_sky; March 29th, 2009 at 23:14.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 19:21   #9
whitedog
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If the compression is even, I wouldn't suspect a bent rod.
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Old April 5th, 2009, 19:13   #10
tdimog
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I am having exactly the same problem on a 2001 Jetta (114 K Miles).

No fault codes. New intake. New turbo (the old one broke the shaft in half).

After a cold start with white blueish smoke and rough idle and noisy clatter, I drive it for less than a mile and it clears up, my boost gauge will read 22 PSI MAX and it runs strong, like nothing happened.

Did the ECT sensor fix your problem?

Any ideas or suggestion?
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Old May 14th, 2009, 23:36   #11
tressindar
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Eugene Oregon
TDI(s): 2000 Golf
Fuel Economy: 40-62 depending on speed
Default Cold misfire and smoke 2000 TDI Golf

I also have this problem with my 2000 TDI Golf. Starts rough, smokes a lot at idle and below about 1500 rpm but drives fine above. It's also notable that it isn't triggering the engine light. I have 240k with upgraded injectors and a veggie kit.

Today I scraped coking off the injectors, cleaned the air filter, replaced the fuel filter and made sure the glow system was tip top. I suspect the timing may have jumped and will be checking it in the morning. Another possibility seems to be the temperature sensor. I will keep you all posted.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 21:18   #12
cbulg23
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Default White smoke and runs rough

I was just wondering if anyone has figured out a solution to this problem? I have changed my fuel filter and air filter, and now my car is at my buddies to see if he can find the problem. By reading everyone's post, it sounds like we are all dealing with the same problem.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 08:38   #13
internationalmike
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I had the same problem too. Was searching for the cause on this forum a few weeks ago and found this post. Car was running fine, turbo failed (shaft broke). After replacing turbo it difficult to start cold, very smoky (unburnt fuel) and rough. Once driven would smooth out to near normal. I assume the oil carboned up the rings, so i soaked the cyls with seafoam. Helped but didn't cure it. Anyway I tore down the engine expecting to find broken rings from sucking in oil and hydrolocking. Instead found bent rods (ouch). Replaced the rods (did rings and bearings too - would be dumb not to) runs great now smooth as silk. That is if you can really compare silk to a diesel engine.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 09:32   #14
tressindar
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TDI(s): 2000 Golf
Fuel Economy: 40-62 depending on speed
Default Bent Rods but runs fine while warm?

That sounds kind of ludicrous to me. I'm not saying you didn't have bent rods, I'm just saying that perhaps the degree to which it "smoothed out to nearly normal" for you is probably not the same degree to which my car smooths out when it gets warm.

The only real differences when it's cold are that more fuel is added and the timing is retarded. I don't see how advancing the timing could remedy - even partially - an issue caused by a bent rod.

I have ordered a fuel temperature sensor for mine and hope that's the problem. If it isn't then perhaps I'll pursue the possibility you suggest.

Also, International Mike: Had you done any performance upgrades to your TDI and do you know why your turbo shaft broke? Thanks.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 11:30   #15
internationalmike
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No mods . The engine ran poorly when cold due to the lowered compression. I figure when the motor sucked in the oil from the turbo ( the motor lost 3-4 quarts rapidly when it let go) it can't compress the oil and something had to give. I was shocked when i saw the rods, but it had made some scary noises after the turbo let go, and i must of drained a quart out of the hose from the turbo to the intercooler. Oh and as far as smoothing out, the only thing noticeable after the initial driveaway/ first minute of idling was a slight "buck" at steady cruise around 1800rpm in 4th or 5th gear. Was smooth at above 2000 or under any acceleration. I still can't believe it ran as good as it did with those rods.

Last edited by internationalmike; June 9th, 2009 at 11:33.
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