09 DSG Transmission Problem

I have a new 2009 Jetta TDI with the DSG transmission (1000 mi.). I have now had the transmission hit a 'false' neutral twice on me.

The first time I backed out of a warm garage onto the street, stopped, slid it into Drive, and it just reved and didn't engage when I pushed the throttle. I looked at the lever to check and it was in Drive. I shifted to neutral, then back into Drive and it then worked perfectly.

Yesterday, I was driving in the city, car warmed up, and I was sitting at a stop light. I slid the lever into the tiptronic mode in 1st gear. The light turned green and I pulled away at an easy clip, and as the tach hit 3000 RPM, the revs took off and headed for redline. I was not accelerating hard and have worked though the gears countless times in this manner. When the car reved, it slowed down like it was out of gear. I tapped it into second and it was fine.

Anyone else heard of this type of issue? I have not been able to duplicate the problem, so I'm sure the dealer won't be able to as well.

Pete

DSG false neutral

The DSG could have thrown a fault but not a CEL. This fault would be stored in computer which they could easily access or you could if you had VCDS from Ross-tech!

Hey thanks, good info. I was afraid they would have to reproduce the problem to troubleshoot. Say, what's a CEL?
Thx
Pete

2004STARWARSTDI said:

The DSG could have thrown a fault but not a CEL. This fault would be stored in computer which they could easily access or you could if you had VCDS from Ross-tech!

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Check engine light.........You probaby have a stored code!! The car is under warranty you should take it in for a look see!!

Please note that 1st gear in "Tip" mode is good for about 10 Feet, at which time you should be shifting into 2nd gear.

Please, tell us what, if anything, becomes of this. I picked up our '09 after having its 10k service and asking them to check TCM (Trans cmptr module) faults. Once ours went into 'PRNDS' blinking limp mode and reved similarly, according to my wife. They found nothing, couldn't duplicate, etc. However, they did manage to squeze in an extra quart of oil that I had the pleasure of taking back out over the weekend.

I just happen to have the exact same problem... the "PRNDS" blinking lights. The car is at the dealer garage at the moment. Hope to have some good news soon.
The car have a little over 7000 km on the counter.

I never had any trouble to this day. I even started the car at -45ºC (real temp, not counting the wind and humidity). And my car doesn't have a block heater, my Volks dealer says that there is no block heater for the 2009 TDI on the market, but that they are coming. We had 8 consecutive days below -30ºC, so my battery have had a lot of work. I will need to change it next winter I think.

I don't know if the bitter cold, or the very low battery can have an influence on the programming of the transmission...

Hopefully these snafus don't turn out to be mechatronics (DSG valve body) issues because I have run into a few of these from the A5 PD DSGs. I say hope not because I was hoping these snafus would have been rectified since then. Later!

Vince_SilverFox said:

And my car doesn't have a block heater, my Volks dealer says that there is no block heater for the 2009 TDI on the market, but that they are coming. We had 8 consecutive days below -30ºC, so my battery have had a lot of work. I will need to change it next winter I think.

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FrostHeater.com is now selling a TDI heater for the 2009 models, lots of people seem to like his design.

The problem has not repeated for me, so I haven't taken it to the dealer for a code check. Will have them check for a code when they do the oil change.

After a lot of tests my dealer contacted me to tell me that my car was alright. They saw nothing wrong with the transmission. But in the log of the computer, they saw a lot of low battery signals. They concluded, as I thought in my last post, that the very low battery has made the transmission computer (mechatronic) to take wrong decisions, so it behave like it was at fault. But after they charged the battery, they reset the computer, and it work like new.

The dealer is 1 hour from here, so I had the chance to test drive it on my way home, and it behave exactly as it suppose to.

And now that they installed my block heater, I will not kill the battery like I had 2 weeks ago. So I hope the car will be alright now.

So all of you with PRNDS blinking light, maybe you should look at the battery first. If it's not at fault, then maybe it's the mechatronic.

Delighted to hear that your problem was resolved by the dealer. Can you provide any nformation on the block heater? Is this a VW blocker heater or an after market TDI FrostHeater? What was the cost - installed?

I'm curious how the battery could have gotten so low as your alternator should be keeping the battery fully charged whenever the engine is on.

My hunch is it's a normal characteristic, or, a designed in thing to protect the DMF and DSG clutchpack and internals from twisting load shocks. This is common in heavy equipment to protect big parts from plopping their guts out on the ground.

Here is something I'm seeing on my 2 '09's that does not occur on the '06.

If I lop it into drive from reverse, without completely stopping the car -- in other words -- letting it roll backwards, lightly dragging the brakes as I slow the car, or with the brake applied or not, it will not do anything. It may as well be tied to a battleship.

If I stop completely, everything is fine, the car pops right into D and off I go.

Maybe they've set the software up to keep shocks off the DMF because a couple times after buying my 06 I didn't 'completely' stop before going to drive from reverse, and it REALLY thwacked my neck as it snapped into drive. About 35,000 miles later I had a DMF spit it'self apart and it took out the engine and the trans while doing about 75mph.

ChuChu said:

I'm curious how the battery could have gotten so low as your alternator should be keeping the battery fully charged whenever the engine is on.

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I would think that the low voltage events happened starting the car so the alternator was not in the picture yet. At -45 C, the battery must have been severely taxed and lost its ability to maintain a voltage the computer was designed for. A missing bit in the memory or a bad read from a sensor could well not affect the engine until much later. I have seen programs work flawlessly for hours and suddenly fail where a bit got twiddled.

tdipaddler said:

Can you provide any nformation on the block heater? Is this a VW blocker heater or an after market TDI FrostHeater?

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I had a VW block heater installed recently. It has a resistence of 23 ohms which would draw about 5 amps or 600 watts. This is what my old Mustang with its 302 motor had and 600 watts was sufficient even for that car.

I don't know what it looks like as it is tucked in there where I can't see it. I understand it is not a Calix but since I have not seen it, I can't be sure. It seems to be on the driver's side in front of the motor.

Works fine. It won't boil my coffee in the morning but the car starts like it was summer and that is the important thing.

Part number, please, if you can find it? Is it true that it's not available in the US?

I left the invoice at work so I will provide it hopefully tomorrow.

There is a shortage of them and my dealership was calling their cars back in the same order as they were sold - almost like a recall. It is possible that they are distributing to Canadian customers first, but that is idle speculation. Valid never-the-less as one would not think they would send them to California instead. What better testing ground than Winnipeg!

It works fine. It was -34 C this morning driving into work and the TDI started up as if it were summer. Temperature guage came off its pin after a mile of quiet driving down a gravel road. In the city, that happens after a few blocks.

BINGO: low battery

I suspect Vince has the right answer. The blinking PRNDL & little/no power to wheels is different problem than Pete's (OP) and it happen to me twice this winter -- both times below 0°F. A simple 'fuzzy-logic reset' took care of it.

It occurred to me that greatly-reduced cold cranking likely interrupted power to the mechatronic enough to wig-out the electronic registers.

During extreme cold this can be exacerbated by robbing battery of recharge juice with heated seats, aux heater, etc. running full tilt. Below -10° my motor will not completely warm-up for my 35 mile commute – even on highway. So I rely on heated seats and aux heater for SOME comfort. Since then I make sure battery gets 30 minutes with only one other electrical convenience turned on.

After a night outside @ -24°F, followed by cranking @ -18° problem did not reoccur. Left the car outside just to see if it would start in those temps… took 4 tries (cranking ~5 seconds each) before she gave up the ghost.

Rod Bearing said:

Maybe they've set the software up to keep shocks off the DMF because a couple times after buying my 06 I didn't 'completely' stop before going to drive from reverse, and it REALLY thwacked my neck as it snapped into drive. About 35,000 miles later I had a DMF spit it'self apart and it took out the engine and the trans while doing about 75mph.

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Thanks. That's insightful. Ours hasn't repeated the PRNDS flash, but I'd speculate it wasn't cold, or a discharged battery, because it originally happened 10+ miles from home on an above freezing day. This type of thing could happen half a dozen times during ownership and i wouldn't care. If it leads to something else, like the valve body Harv mentioned...

Hate to say it, but I've just had mine do the same thing, twice in two weeks. There are some exceptions though. The DSG transmission disengaged while driving along in "D", just like being manually slipped into neutral. Engine revved until I let off the throttle, car started slowing, then re-engaged, all while being in "D". Temperature wasn't a factor as it was in the 60-70F. Gonna make an appt. this week, but considering the megatronic, it's got me very worried. I guess it's just like anything else that is engineered to the hilt. More opportunity for problems.

dsg

saw a post somewhere on vwvortex I think, talking about the DSG on 2009 Jetta not being properly done to handle the torque on the TDI. On the gassers, it was fine. The poster also said that in the newer model Jetta's this problem had been remedied. I don't want to spread FUD, so I will try to find the exact quote and paste it here.

Oh, I've been showin' it the torque.

Fo Sho.

Tim Birney said:

Please note that 1st gear in "Tip" mode is good for about 10 Feet, at which time you should be shifting into 2nd gear.

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Just adding a little to this. While that is correct, if you forget you've got it 'tipronic', as a safety measure the car will still shift up at high revs. Somewhere near redline if I remember correctly.

BTW, the dealer kept my car the entire day yesterday. No codes, but they were downloading/discussing the parameters with VW. They told me that VW wants them to put 30 miles on it and download the parameters to them again today. I don't really expect any new news, but at least it's documented now.

I've got a hunch this may be a hiccup regarding the DSG's design for disengaging the clutch when not under a load, such as coasting in "D". Both times this occurred, it was a situation where speed was low and "go" pedal position was slight. Flat road, 40-50 mph, 6th gear, running around 1700-2000 rpm.

09 jetta with DSG

Well my 09 has 1.5k miles and less than 3 weeks on the clock and it clunks and bangs into 1st gear on a 2/1 ds and a 1 to stop.

It's at the dealer with no codes and since my 06 TDI DGS was also a piece I'm going to request a new car.

Sorry but German engineering is out the door and VW quality is crap. This is my last VW. My American cars are less problem prone and much more trouble free. THanks god the blue oval is pulling it's butt out of the fire.

Don't mean to offend you brand loyal floks but VW needs to focus on QC.
My 06 was in the shop more than on the road and this car is heading down the same path.

I'm not going to accept a repair as a fix this time. they can get me my $$$$ back or a new car. i'm not dealing with another VW lemon.

Clunk and bang, really?

Well, the dealer has been told by VW to replace the speed sensor on the DSG. Thought it would be a simple replacement. However, I asked the tech how involved the job was he told me that the sensor is located inside the valve body. He said the have to pull the trans. and remove/open up the valve body.

I expressed my concern regarding the 'Can-O-Worms' possibility and asked did I have the option to continue to drive it to see if it gets worse and the service manager said it would be in my best interest to have the service done so it would not be on my shoulders should something go wrong.

Any of you VW mechanics pulled a valve body on a DSG? Does the motor have to pulled or lowered to get at the transmission?

VW changed the mechatronics unit in my '09 DSG and it still has the 1st and 2nd gear jolt changes. I first complained to VW about the jolting at 825 miles. The mechatronics unit was changed at 2488 miles and now at 5200 miles, it still does it.

It's starting to sound like this might be the first reasonably common + reasonably serious problem reported for '09s. Might-should start a poll on this so we can get a sense of what %age of vehicles are affected, and see whether it's occurring in a range of build numbers (which might suggest a manufacturing glitch) or randomly across build numbers (which would suggest either a hardware or a software engineering problem)?.

EDIT: OK, so I thought it was a good enough idea that I decided to start that thread.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a cynic that feels this is just one more instance of big biz.

Mating mass produced, albiet aggressively engineered bits, to a range of brands and powerplants without regard for complete reliability, all the while fronting sales through the "wow" factor.

Surely by now the bean counters at VW must have a handle on failure rates for the DSG and its "Mate-A-Chronic" given all the replacements?

Why is it that even after, soooo many bugz in the DSG line, there's not been redesigns that truly fix these issues? Maybe the warehouse isn't empty yet?

And I thought I had problems when bought when I bought a '97 Volvo 850.