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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old December 2nd, 2008, 00:21   #1
oldpoopie
 
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Default Modified ALTERNATOR PULLEY TOOL

Finally a way to remove and replace the alternator pulley without removing the alternator!

A while ago, I was talking with Fixumrich about how you should be able to remove the alt pulley in the vehicle if you had the right tool. We decided that it should be possible if you shorten the m10 tripple square and fasten a wrench to the end. Rich wound up doing it a while back, but just used a grinder to make a rough prototype and it worked great. Today I made a more finalized (clean) version on my lathe and used it as well. Basically I got a replacement m10 tripple from the Snap-On truck. It starts out made from a 11mm hex shaft that rounds out and ends with the m10 tripple. I measured just how much of the hex shaft I'd have to turn, and cut it so that there is just a bit of hex left when the tool is installed in the alt pulley.

With this setup, you slide the two tools at once up and into the alternator pulley. Then using 17mm and 11mm box wrenches, break the pulley loose. Remove the tools after breaking loose othewise the frame rail will interfere with removal. Spin the pully off by hand and spin on the new pulley, tightening the same way.

Here are some pics of my setup. I've emailed Chuck at Metalnerd... Who knows, maybe he'll decide to make some.





I hate to toot my own horn, but this is such a huge timesaver.

Here is a shot of the standard metalnerd tool


My modified tool started life as this:
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Last edited by oldpoopie; December 2nd, 2008 at 08:49.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 04:21   #2
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except the new (within the last month or so) metalnerd tool that I just purchased is made from all round stock for the long shafts...

if it was made from hex like that photo it would be easier to just cut it off at the needed length and be done with it.


how long did you cut your tool off?
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:02   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Growler
except the new (within the last month or so) metalnerd tool that I just purchased is made from all round stock for the long shafts...

if it was made from hex like that photo it would be easier to just cut it off at the needed length and be done with it.


how long did you cut your tool off?
The metalnerd tool cannot be cut since it is already round (needs to be to fit inside the larger part). If it were a hex shape, it would not fit inside the center of the larger splined piece of the tool combo.

I'm guessing he started with something like this:



and just machined the hex part of the shaft to make it fit inside the larger splined part of the tool. If you don't have a lathe to machine it down, a bench grinder works too.

BTW, nice work Oldpoopie.

FYI, Snap on, Lisle & many other tool companies make these tools. Easy to buy and not expensive, so no worries about modding one.
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Last edited by Wingnut; December 2nd, 2008 at 07:09.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:08   #4
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Justin: have you never run across an alternator pulley that was stuck on the shaft to the degree that impact tools were required to loosen it???

When I was at Wingnut's place a short while ago, we couldn't persuade the pulley to come loose without resorting to the impact gun...

Yuri.

(PS: Nigel: thanks for that alternator... however, it wound up not being useable due to a bad bearing...)
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 08:34   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingnut
The metalnerd tool cannot be cut since it is already round (needs to be to fit inside the larger part). If it were a hex shape, it would not fit inside the center of the larger splined piece of the tool combo.

I'm guessing he started with something like this:



and just machined the hex part of the shaft to make it fit inside the larger splined part of the tool. If you don't have a lathe to machine it down, a bench grinder works too.

BTW, nice work Oldpoopie.

FYI, Snap on, Lisle & many other tool companies make these tools. Easy to buy and not expensive, so no worries about modding one.
Exactly. The new Metalnerd tripplesquare cannot be used. Get your local Snap-On driver to give you the part shown in the the photo above. They keep them on the truck for repairs. They press the socket adapter off the old damaged shank and onto the new one. Costs about $10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ymz
Justin: have you never run across an alternator pulley that was stuck on the shaft to the degree that impact tools were required to loosen it???

When I was at Wingnut's place a short while ago, we couldn't persuade the pulley to come loose without resorting to the impact gun...

Yuri.

(PS: Nigel: thanks for that alternator... however, it wound up not being useable due to a bad bearing...)
Yes, I've had some that are more difficult to remove. In that case you can always put a pipe on the wrench.
I find it actually easier as the alternator isnt flopping around on the ground while trying to loosen

Quote:
Originally Posted by growler
how long did you cut your tool off?
Total length from tip to end of round section is 1-15/16" Hex section is 3/8".
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 10:52   #6
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For a buck more + shipping, you can get a set of 4 from Lisle. Pep boys, Autozone, Napa, Harbour freight & many other retailers should also carry Lisle tools in stock.

That is the set I have that I used to make the same tool. The bonus is you have different sizes needed for the steering wheel, axles, doors, locks, & other various triple square bolts on these cars.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 21:03   #7
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Justin - I'm going to attempt to steal your thunder...I figured that out back in April.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 21:13   #8
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LOL. Rich and I talked it out about a year ago. He made his with a grinder right away and has been using it ever since.... So I guess he stole the thunder first. I'm just putting it out there since nobody seems to have let people know that its possible to swap these things out without removing the alternator.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 22:27   #9
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I was able to do mine with all of the supplied standard tools. I was in the middle of my TB so I had the motor mouts out. I was able to possition the motor just right to be able to get the tools on the alt pulley and then with a 6" extension and my large 1/2" ratchet I was able to pop it loose. The ratchet was very close to the intercooler though so it may not work for everyone. I had to put the extension through a bracket if I remember correctly.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 05:36   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpoopie
LOL. Rich and I talked it out about a year ago. He made his with a grinder right away and has been using it ever since.... So I guess he stole the thunder first. I'm just putting it out there since nobody seems to have let people know that its possible to swap these things out without removing the alternator.
Ah...going for the altruistic angle there eh? Either way, it's good to not have to pull 'em anymore. The G/J aren't too bad; but the beetles are really a pain. Metalnerd already pooped on my idea. Something about sometimes needing to beat the tipple square into the alternator shaft to get a solid purchase.

They come capped though, so I've never had this issue.

And yeah; sometimes they're pretty tight; but I'll gladly flop around under the car with a couple pipes and wrenches if it means I don't have to shoehorn an alternator past the AC lines on a bug.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 08:31   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aNUT
Ah...going for the altruistic angle there eh? Either way, it's good to not have to pull 'em anymore. The G/J aren't too bad; but the beetles are really a pain. Metalnerd already pooped on my idea. Something about sometimes needing to beat the tipple square into the alternator shaft to get a solid purchase.

They come capped though, so I've never had this issue.

And yeah; sometimes they're pretty tight; but I'll gladly flop around under the car with a couple pipes and wrenches if it means I don't have to shoehorn an alternator past the AC lines on a bug.
Exactly. I've never had to beat the tripple into the alternator either??? Never spoke to someone that has... Oh well.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 13:30   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpoopie
Exactly. I've never had to beat the tripple into the alternator either??? Never spoke to someone that has... Oh well.
Nope, and I've done a bunch of them. Great Post, Justin!
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Old January 11th, 2009, 15:54   #13
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FYI, NAPA sell the 10mm 12 point driver bit too for $7.10. It needs ground down also. I had to make mine today to use. NAPA part # is 2305.
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Old January 12th, 2009, 12:17   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aNUT
Ah...going for the altruistic angle there eh? Either way, it's good to not have to pull 'em anymore. The G/J aren't too bad; but the beetles are really a pain. Metalnerd already pooped on my idea. Something about sometimes needing to beat the tipple square into the alternator shaft to get a solid purchase.

They come capped though, so I've never had this issue.

And yeah; sometimes they're pretty tight; but I'll gladly flop around under the car with a couple pipes and wrenches if it means I don't have to shoehorn an alternator past the AC lines on a bug.
On my own NB I had to tap it in. I was replacing the alternator anyway so it had to come out. I pulled the nose. Far less time consuming than trying to get it past a/c lines etc. in my opinion.
I was using a MAC triple square. I had used it before on a pulley replacement and it went in fine so I know the tool wasn't the issue. I guess it could happen but perhaps a prybar against the frame rail and the modified triple square would work.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 10:07   #15
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I'm currently dealing with the Missing Pully Syndrome on my car, and I've got some interesting 'fun facts' for those who stumble across this issue in the future...as luck would have it, my pully flew off during the coldest week we've had in Northern Michigan for some time...that always makes 'wrenching' fun...

I purchased the Metalnerd alternator tools and new pully from TDI Parts, plus made my 10mm 12 point stubbie on the grinder so I wouldn't (theoretically) need to pull the alternator from my car.

First...the remaining portion of the pully (bearing race) left on the alternator shaft was evidently deformed from wear and didn't allow enough clearance to insert the Metalnerd spline tool.

Second...my alternator shaft, (Valeo 120 amp) had a 6 point vs. 12 point hole, so my stubbie tool was useless. ***I would strongly recommend that you check the shaft-end with a mirror and flashlight before diving into the job, although it seems everyone else has 'made' 12 point tools for this task, I don't recall reading about anyone fabricating a 6-point stubbie tool.

Since I now HAD to pull the alternator...I fought with all those clearance issues and got the thing out. I used the 6-point metalnerd bit and a pipe wrench to attempt to loosen the old pully part from the shaft. Mine wasn't coming apart. Ultimately I ended up with a (slightly deformed) 6-point metalnerd tool and a stripped 6-point alternator shaft.

I ordered a new alternator (and a new tensioner for good measure) and am expecting them to be delivered today... Hopefully the rest of the project will go smoother than the past weeks worth of issues...

Moral of the story...??? Who knows...
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