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Eastern USA Local discussions for those in the Eastern USA. (Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Maine, Washington, DC. New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia)

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Old November 14th, 2008, 19:51   #16
RolfRimrott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldorf
Rolf, your 2005 TDI has both a fuel pump and an injector pump? And you had all these items replaced for $1,200? Sounds very cheap

Do you want to contact Metal Man? I guess he's in Sunbury and would likely be able to work thru these issues IF he is willing to do so. Please do NOT omit material facts and share the entire history of this car with him, not just selected bits 'n' pieces. Give him the whole saga

Take care.
The fuel lift pump in the fuel tank was replaced and also the vaccum pump on the head that runs off the cam. The rest of the money was spent on diagnostics, pulling the valve cover, running codes, checking timing etc
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Old November 15th, 2008, 21:29   #17
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I guess all my reserach was one sided about these WVO kits, now I am finding the bad side information. I am debating on removing the kit now, does anyone know about water / alcohol injection being used to clean out all the coking? I have been doing some reserach and only found positive info so far. You guys are the TDI guru;s any insight on water / alcohol injection would be helpful. I am now wanting to get the gum out of the motor (assuming 10k of WVO miles has gummed up the rings etc).

Thanks for the insight
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Old November 16th, 2008, 06:45   #18
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I have turned around quite a few WVO cars by using products such as Seafoam or BG's compression restorer agent. This works so long as they are not too terribly bad.

The spot that is REALLY bad is the oil ring lands. The oil rings get gunked up, then the drain holes in the ring lands (grooves) start to plug up. The way an oil ring is designed to work is that it operates somewhat like a squeegee and slides against the cylinder wall on the way down and pushes the oil away. Some oil gets pushed down, some gets forced down into the ring land and through the drain holes in the piston, to the inside bottom of the piston where the wrist pin and connecting rod are. If those drain holes get plugged up, the oil cannot properly be drained away and the squeegee operation fails. Then the oil gets forced up above the oil ring, to the compression ring area. Compression rings only work on the compression stroke and power stroke (they are forced OUT to the cylinder walls when positive pressure is above them). On the intake stroke, there is negative pressure above them (vacuum of sorts) as the air through the intake is being drawn into the engine. That negative pressure will also draw that oil up past the compression rings (again, remember compression rings DO NOT seal oil by design). That oil gets drawn up into and mixes with the intake air, gets trapped, compressed, and ultimately burned.

So chronic, massive oil consumption results. And it only gets worse because that coking of the oil drain holes in the pistons is increased by more oil consumption. Snowball effect. And, in many cases this INCREASES the compression because the oil forms a tighter seal on the piston in the cylinder. That is why so many WVO cars have compression readings all over the place, but in many cases higher than normal (I have seen them as high as 650+ psi! ) which just causes even more design stresses in an engine that was never intended for that. Not to mention the uneven running an engine has with uneven compression.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 07:14   #19
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OH, it may be a dumb question but could one pull the glowplugs and fill the cylinders with kerosine (or similar), and let it soak for a day or two, to see if it'd loosen something up? A couple of quick OCI's after that, maybe with some of those miracle engine cleaners?
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Old November 16th, 2008, 08:43   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supton
OH, it may be a dumb question but could one pull the glowplugs and fill the cylinders with kerosine (or similar), and let it soak for a day or two, to see if it'd loosen something up? A couple of quick OCI's after that, maybe with some of those miracle engine cleaners?
You can, and I do, BUT you have to be EXTREMELY careful with that on a TDI. Reason being is you need to be able to get ALL the liquid out of the cylinder before trying to start the engine. This can be tough due to the piston bowl design of a direct-injected diesel.

The older diesel engines had essentially a flat top piston that would hold little to no liquid. The TDI has a large "hole" in the top of the piston that can hold enough liquid to cause some severe damage to the engine if it was cranked over while full.

So long as you do the following you should be OK:

Remove ALL the glowplugs, and set the pistons all at mid-block (meaning all 4 pistons are halfway between TDC and BDC level in the center of their stroke).

Just put enough liquid in the cylinder to insure the entire top of the piston is covered, so that seepage of this agent past the rings happens all the way around, which on a FWD VAG product means about 12 to 15 liquid ounces total in all 4 cylinders due to the 15 degree angle the engine sits at.

Remove via a suction tube device through the GP holes any remaining solvent after sitting.

Spray a highly evaporative cleaning agent to 'rinse' the cylinders (such as brake cleaner) in each cylinder and throughly dry with compressed air.

Drain and refill the oil (some will have leaked into the crankcase).

Crank the engine over BY HAND several revolutions with no plugs in.

Continue to crank the engine via the starter with the injection pump unplugged so no fuel can be injected while the plugs are still out to push anything left out.

Then after installing the plugs, but before plugging the bridge on and plugging the pump in crank the engine again...if any volatile liquids remain above the piston, the engine will compress and attempt to burn this...so you might get a sputter and some puffs of smoke...this is a good thing because you want to purge anything left totally OUT of the engine.

Then plug the remaining bits in, clear the ECU memory of all the DTCs you set, start the car and go run the snot out of it until up to temp then change the oil again.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 13:49   #21
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Default and now back to the Pageant

I've been waiting since last Wednesday for this word-from-our-sponsor to end.......
So NOW may we see Miss 2005 Jetta Tdi Engine?
Or at least first and second runners-up in this pageant?
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Old November 21st, 2008, 17:10   #22
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Well the story ends like this.
I removed the glow plugs and the element on cylinder #3 was completely missing. about 1/4 inch were missing from 1 2 and 4.
I have a really cool scope that I inserted thru the glow plug hole, and you can see lots of score marks on the cylinder walls.
The head is comming off.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 06:08   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staley
Well the story ends like this.
I removed the glow plugs and the element on cylinder #3 was completely missing. about 1/4 inch were missing from 1 2 and 4.
I have a really cool scope that I inserted thru the glow plug hole, and you can see lots of score marks on the cylinder walls.
The head is comming off.
Don't bother, it is probably too late for that engine to be saved.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 09:04   #24
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IT sucks really bad actually. With 100k you would think that they would not have failed. stock engine with stock software. We are going to try and save the engine, the cost to replace one is WAY to darn expensive.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 09:06   #25
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What about that Engine restore in a can? If you watch the mis-leading advertisement... it coats the cylinder walls and renews them!! Maybe we could just skip the engine oil and add 4qts of that stuff...
UMMM NO LOL
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Old November 24th, 2008, 09:18   #26
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How does WVO usage take out glowplugs?

I presume the compression is way too low to run--but what is blowing, by chance? Any chance of getting photos of the bores and the head when the head comes off?
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Old November 24th, 2008, 10:13   #27
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I am not pointing any fingers at WVO usage.
I will take some detailed photos
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Old November 24th, 2008, 12:08   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supton
How does WVO usage take out glowplugs?

I presume the compression is way too low to run--but what is blowing, by chance? Any chance of getting photos of the bores and the head when the head comes off?
When the injector spray patterns get poor, they 'dribble', and this can land a relatively cool liquid right on the hot GP and cause the tip to crack and eventually burn off. Quite common actually.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 10:57   #29
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It also happens with petroleum diesel and biodiesel, too. Less frequent with petro (but many more users of this fuel so incidence counts are high), more frequent rate with bio, much higher rate with VO.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 13:35   #30
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Yep, any time the injector has a flakey spray pattern bad things can happen. It is just that it is about 1000 times more likely for a bad injector with WVO use than it is with proper diesel fuel.
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