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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old September 21st, 2008, 17:40   #1
Jeepmb
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Question How do I adjust Mechanical Injection Timing?

So, I have talked to my dealer who BADLY changed my Timing Belt, and confirmed that my injection timing is wrong. I need to re-adjust, and while i am at it, advance my injector timing. I read the FAQ part about adjusting it but it makes no sense to me. Pictures, Links, anything would help, but I can't figure how to change the injection timing.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 18:09   #2
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You need to have the job completely redone, correctly this time. If they could not get the pump timing right, then you can bet NOTHING is right, and chances are very good you will be pulling the head off soon.

May want to read this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=212873

Also, what is an 'aswome driver'?
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Last edited by oilhammer; September 21st, 2008 at 18:17.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 18:15   #3
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Please, for your own sake go to the trusted mechanic section and find someone competent to fix it. Do not drive it until it is fixed.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 18:23   #4
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The reason they are telling you to have it redone is that most dealerships don't replace all the parts, they only replace the TB and sometimes the water pump. 90% of the time, it is not the TB that breaks, it is one of the parts in the system that seize...and then break the belt. This results in a very costly repair bill (~$5k). You really need to go pay to have it redone again correctly, and don't go back to the dealership....they don't know what they are doing.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 18:44   #5
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OMG, a stealer that can't even set injection timing. RUN!!!
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Old September 21st, 2008, 19:38   #6
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Well, I don't forsee any catastrophic failure. It has been going for 30,000 miles and nothing has broken. I can say that since the change (the change that didnt crater the engine), my engine has been running lag and not performing the way it used to. After talking to my dealer they said they never checked that when they did it a while back so i thought that could be the answer.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 21:49   #7
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You need a vagcom to check the timing. After that, you carefully loosen the bolts on the pump and rotate it slightly (1/2mm) one way or the other depending on advance or retard. It takes a bit of patience to get it right.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 21:53   #8
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Really? According to the FAQ it said that I needed to mess with the pully, not the pump housing. Well cool then, the pump method is easier. And did you really mean 1/2 mm? Any Pics?

Update: Hmm, finally got the HOW TO for the timing belt on the A4 downloaded. It seems the FAQ and the Timing belt manual contradict eachother...
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Old September 21st, 2008, 22:17   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepmb
Well, I don't forsee any catastrophic failure. It has been going for 30,000 miles and nothing has broken. I can say that since the change (the change that didnt crater the engine), my engine has been running lag and not performing the way it used to. After talking to my dealer they said they never checked that when they did it a while back so i thought that could be the answer.
I'm sorry, but your statement makes no sense. A bearing either spins or it doesn't, how does it running for 30k say that the bearing won't seize in 5k? You're exceeding the ratings for the bearings, and they are known to seize and break the timing belt...the fact that you have been lucky thus far does not mean you will be lucky tomorrow. This is potentially a _very_ expensive mistake to make...but it is your money, so if you want to gamble go ahead....it's your $5000. Just remember, the people here telling you to change it have a lot more experience with these cars than you do.

Oh, and you will not get any warning before it breaks. Sometimes you will hear a slight swooshing sound as the belt migrates, but for the most part a bearing will just seize, the belt will snap, the engine will go out of timing, you will have head - valve contact...and before you're done you'll have around $5k in damages (maybe more, maybe less..more likely more than less).

Last edited by puter; September 21st, 2008 at 22:20.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 23:48   #10
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Mechanical Injection Timing adjust:

1) Buy VCDS: http://www.ross-tech.com/ YOU CAN NOT DO THIS ADJUSTMENT WITHOUT IT.

2) Get car fully warm, like a 30+ minute drive. You need coolant and fuel at full operating temps.

3) Connect VCDS cable. Fire up VCDS. Load up the TDI Timing graph checker, see this page: http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-scope/TDIGraph.html

MAKE SURE YOU PICK THE CORRECT GRAPH FOR YOUR CAR -> lower right drop-down box.

If timing is incorrect,

4) Turn off car. Pop hood. Remove timing belt cover.

5) On the pulley for the injection pump are three small bolts and the large center one. Use appropriate socket (1/2" worked for me) to loosen the three bolts JUST ENOUGH to remove tension, do not make them very loose!

6) Use 22mm socket to adjust the center nut. Toward back of car is 'retard' , toward front of car is 'advance'. You need to use TINY TINY TINY adjustments. The entire 0-255 range is LESS THAN 1mm. Don't turn the bolt, tap the wrench very slightly, while applying pressure.

7) Tighten three bolts up.

8) Turn on car. Fire up VCDS and check timing.

9) Repeat #5-#9 at least four times, because you'll adjust it too far in one direction or the other.

Took me at least 10 times to get mine just right.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 23:52   #11
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Oh, and I second what everyone else says about the timing belt. You're playing with fire. No sympathy here if something goes; you can search and fine a hundred threads about people who had a dealer change the timing belt and it blew up 100 to 50,000 miles later.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 05:48   #12
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The issue here is that if the timing is that far off after the belt was done, they DID IT WRONG. PERIOD. The only adjustment to the timing you should need to make after a new belt install is a very minor tweaking (fine tuning), not enough to really make a huge difference in the way the car runs. If it is THAT far off, then the belt is off.

30k miles is not the issue, because if the engine falls out after 40k miles (because the dealer reused and improperly torqued the engine stretch bolts) or the bearings fail in one of the pulleys after 40k miles (because the dealer reused them all) or the water pump fails after 40k miles (because the dealer used a 'rebuilt' pump with the plastic impeller...if they replaced it at all), or if you cannot properly set the timing NOW (because they did the Mark & Pray method) then you really have screwed yourself.

We see this same story pan out time and time and time again. Darkscout's thread I linked above does not even touch ALL of the dealer (or even non-dealer) horror stories of botched timing belt jobs and the problems they create.

If you brought your car to me right now, I guarantee you I will find evidence it was done wrong and if I don't I will fall over in shock. I've seen the job go wrong after 200 miles, and I have seen them go wrong after 50k miles....both of which are before the next interval, and both of which cost big bucks to remedy. The fact that you have gone 30k miles says to me you are lucky and should push no further!
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 07:19   #13
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and we've also seen this argument time and again by people that it is "running fine". And then see them come back going "my TB broke!!" and they find out they have to buy a new engine and are upset. As others have said, as far as I am concerned, you definitely have been warned and will see no sympathy from me when you come back with a broken TB and huge bill.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 10:44   #14
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Alright then. So no Sarcasm intended here, in your guys' opinion I should get this job redone just because this was done at a dealership? I understand why, I was mad as hell when they blew my engine the first time. Well this car of mine doesn't have to be a daily driver so I can probably stop driving it for now, but can you guys sound off what you paid for your Timing Belt jobs at non-dealerships?
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 10:46   #15
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I paid $300 + parts. YMMV. Will depend on your local guru. It is strongly suggested you find someone on here who does it.

If you can drive yourself to Portland, Justin (aka oldpoopie) is well-regarded as a top-notch timing belt guru. I had mine done early, just so I could have him do it.
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