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Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old September 9th, 2008, 22:28   #1
Neurot
 
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Location: Austin, TX
Default DieselGreen Fuels tests B100 in 2009 Jetta TDI

I took delivery of my 2009 Jetta TDI (base model, manual transmission) last week. I bought it with the express purpose of using B100 exclusively. The dealer (Charles Maund VW in Austin, TX) immediately said I would void my warranty. After some verbal back and forth, I wound up emailing them some information about the Magnuson Voss Act, including a letter from the Oregon Auto Dealers Association regarding the use of biodiesel (found here). I don't know if that warmed them up to my plan, or they just wanted to sell another Jetta, but I wound up getting my ordered vehicle just like I wanted it, in the color I wanted, and 2 months ahead of what was quoted initially!

After quite a few thoughtful replies on my plans, today was the day to get started.
I drove 378 miles on the initial tank of diesel (poor average of 28.8MPG), and ran it until it had 5 miles remaining on the tank (according to the display). Then I put in 16.1 gallons of pure biodiesel, made from used cooking oil, produced to conform to the ASTM specification D6751. I have a certificate of analysis from the producer, New Energy Fuels in Houston, did my own quality tests (clear and bright, methanol, water, and phlip), and have sold 5000 gallons from the same batch, from the same tank, even some just before my fillup. So I have every reason to believe that my results will be indicative of an average B100 user in the new TDI platform. There may be some variability based on the feedstock and climate it is used in, but should not be much. Also, October 1st is the day that the new ASTM specifications take effect, which should increase the quality even further (new "cold soak" test, oxidative stability, and other refinements).
After filling up to *completely* full, I ran the engine for awhile, rev'ed it a bit (but not exceeding the 3500 rpm level due to the break-in period). It ran normally, then I drove it the 8 miles home. Not the most comprehensive test, but enough to breathe a little easier. There was no immediate loss in power or fuel economy noticeable, no check engine light, etc.
I will keep this thread open for periodic updates. PLEASE follow these simple rules before replying to this thread:
Do not post about how I'm going to void the warranty, ruin the engine, destroy the DPF, or anything else stupid and inflammatory. Please do post any specific concerns you have, things to look out for, tests you recommend (and vendors to send samples to), etc. If you have specific negative things to say, like "I heard that you may have to change your oil more often", cite references. If you read somewhere that it will do something bad, go research it and come back.
If you don't like biodiesel, don't think it has a place in modern cars, or have any other "feelings" about biofuels in general, take it somewhere else. There are enough forums even on TDIclub to debate the merits of growing crops for fuel or net energy balance.
If someone does start in with nonsense, don't take the bait!
Full Disclosure - I run a business selling biodiesel. I WANT this to work. I am not exactly a neutral scientist recording data and coming to a hypothesis. However, if something doesn't go the way I hope it will, this information could be extremely valuable for the future of biodiesel. I will report my results, and hope that others will find this experiment useful.
Current test plan:
Drive it like an old lady for the remainder of the break-in period (probably 2 tanks).
At 1000 miles, take an oil sample and send it off to Blackstone (unless there's a better place - I could use some help on this one).
After 1500 miles, take it to the dealer for a courtesy check (their suggestion)
At each 1000 mile increment, repeat oil sample.
Depending on results, modify or abandon experiment, or continue as planned.
Hope to get a few suggestions and hints, but not spawn a giant free-for-all conversation. Nobody likes threads that drag out for dozens of pages, so please keep it brief.
Thanks for all the participation in my previous post and I'm looking forward to more discussion!
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7 vehicles, all on B100:
2013 Passat, 2004 Passat, 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2011 Freightliner, 1995 International, 1988 International, 1996 Dodge 3500
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Old September 9th, 2008, 23:17   #2
jvance
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You may want to reconsider babying it during the breakin:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Also drivbiwire's break-in how-to:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=464223

Warm it up fully, then do progressively harder acceleration followed by engine braking runs to properly seat the rings.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 23:37   #3
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I need to come by and get some B100 from you guys.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 00:07   #4
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Thanks for a great set of clear ground rules. I hope we can all follow them and learn what we can from you, the voluntary guinea pig.

I second the recommendaton that you research posts and threads by member Drivbiwire on how to best properly break in your Tdi. FWIK, it helps to really romp on it after the initial baby'ing period to help seat the compression rings in. Links were provided above by jvance.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 00:14   #5
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following a set recommended break in protocol for your new diesel is advisable, in my opinion.

drivbiwire's "how to" is a good one.


FWIW, Only thing I would do different, is the usage of minor amounts of fuel additives....like Stanadyne or startron or power service, to improve combustion.

I use them regularly in minor amounts with the B100, for my 2002 jetta tdi.


take care, and wish you the best. Please keep us updated...
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Old September 10th, 2008, 03:48   #6
philngrayce
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Thank you very much for taking the plunge.

Perhaps you could find someone in the area (or on this forum) with a similar new vehicle, running it on petro diesel. If you could also test their oil at 1,000 mile intervals (probably at your expense), it might provide a useful comparison.

I have found Blackstone to be very good, and very easy to talk to. Let them know what you are doing and I think they will monitor it especially closely.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 04:18   #7
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Good luck , make sure you get regular oil analysis's to watch out for BD crankcase oil contamination . That is what VW claims is the issue with high $ BD use in this car .

Again Goood Luck
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Old September 10th, 2008, 08:08   #8
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Jason,

Best of Luck... all of us using bio-d or want to in the future will follow this thread closely and again, thanks for your willingness to do this. I guess you will make history! (good or bad...hopefully good)
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Old September 10th, 2008, 08:27   #9
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I look forward to what happens with this ... and I really hope NOTHING happens!

Just for continuity, here is the discussion prior to starting this experiment: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=220989
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Old September 10th, 2008, 09:01   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFaster
I look forward to what happens with this ... and I really hope NOTHING happens!

Just for continuity, here is the discussion prior to starting this experiment: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=220989
Although some may assume otherwise, I ditto this hope. Later!
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Old September 10th, 2008, 09:21   #11
rodneyh1
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I picked up my 2009 Jetta a couple weeks ago. I am also running B99 that is mfg'd by SeQuential and sold at a local gas station. I'll have to swith to approx. B75 for the winter pretty soon. No plans for any kind of testing what-so-ever. 1st tank from the dealer was petrol diesel, and I got 38.7 mpg with about 75% highway / 25% city. Ran great on that. Switched over about 300 miles ago and have seen no difference. Will keep posting periodically.

Rod
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Old September 10th, 2008, 09:22   #12
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When will we call this experiment a success? It's easy to spot a failure, but what does success look like? 300k miles & no fuel or exhaust problems?
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Old September 10th, 2008, 09:58   #13
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Thanks Rod! Glad to know someone else out there is already ahead of the curve.
As for success, it's more about how MUCH success will it take for an individual reader of these posts to decide they will be comfortable using B100 in their 09 TDI. I suspect some will jump in already, having heard 300 miles on a tank with no CEL or adverse affect. Others may wait 5k miles, or wait to hear UOA results. Some will never be satisfied...but that crowd is not really the audience I'm going for
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2011 Freightliner, 1995 International, 1988 International, 1996 Dodge 3500
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Old September 10th, 2008, 11:59   #14
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Is it just me, or do I see a big difference in the approach of this experiment between Neurot and Rod? Later!
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Old September 10th, 2008, 14:19   #15
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*subscribes to thread* Should make for an interesting read. Please keep us all posted.

I entirely agree that the B5 limit implemented by dealerships is total BS (funny how B5 looks like BS...) but I don't really know where the safe upper limit is. It is very useful to see people like you pushing the limits. Adding UOA's to the experiment helps to keep all of the relevant data monitored and I'm very interested to see how this goes!
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