September 2008 Mileage

97pssat04golfTDIs

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Location
Rockville, Maryland USA
TDI
1997 Passat GLS TDI traded in, 2004 Golf GLS, 2004 Passat GLS Sold in Nov. 2012
September 2008 Mileage Thread

And the Winners Are!
Tasdrouille best manual Jetta/Vento ranking 1
(O\=o=/O) best auto Jetta ranking 28
don4sail best manual Golf ranking 4
97pssat04golfTDIs best auto Golf ranking 33
Waldek Walrus best manual NB ranking 23
scooperhsd best auto NB ranking 35
MikeMars best B4 Passat ranking 7
Lug_Nut best B5.5 Passat ranking 36
ScooterJim best new 2009 Jetta ranking 32

Also Bleached Bora gets a special award for posting fills on more vehicles than anyone else in one month since he is using rentals across the pond in Europe, the lucky sucker.

The updated chart is below sorry I could not get clear image to load on this page so I left it as a link to the PDF so people could resize it to there monitor as needed. I hope this was OK with everyone, imput and or suggestions are welcome.
This was my first time trying this and there is more work to it than one may imagine, but it's not that hard.

Take care,

Drew aka "97pssat04golfTDIs"




September
2008 Mileage Thread This is a month by month competition. Every time you make an entry it will be added up and recorded together according to the fuel type and car/year you are driving.
THIS IS NOT an individual tank competition (or a partial tank competition for that matter).

Entries will be accepted until October 5, but remember, report tanks FILLED IN September.

Entry Format:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Driver:
Miles:
Gallons:
Model Year:
Model:
Tranny:
Fuel Type:

You are allowed to put more than one fill up in a post, so long as each fill up conforms to format.

MPG: (optional since I will calculate it automatically anyway)
(anything else you would like to add)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hint on entering your data - after the colon ( ":") put a space.

US GALLONS AND MILES

TRANNY TYPES:
(x) A = x speed automatic
(x) M = x speed manual *
DSG = direct-shift gearbox
CVT = continuously variable transmission
* if you have swapped in a taller 5th gear please noted this (ie: 5M w/.681)

FUEL TYPES:
Bx = biodiesel - x is the percentage of bio
Biodiesel use equal to, or more than B20, will be indicated in GREEN.
ULSD / LSD / D2 = normal petroleum based diesel
Also please note if it's winterized

- please note if you are using a fuel additive (ie: ULSD +PS)
- - Power Service (PS); Stanadyne (ST); Redline (RL)

Posts not in format will not be tallied / corrected.

Please do not go back and add additional fillups to a post. Multiple fillups per post is fine as long as all fillups are in format. If the driver name is not the same as your post name - this will be considered "Not in format" and will not be counted. Only exceptions would be "and spouse" etc.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/TDI_Mileage_upd_10-6-08.pdf
 
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scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Sept 6

Driver: scooperhsd
Miles: 235.5
Gallons: 6.786
Model Year: 2000
Model: NB
Tranny: 4A
Fuel Type: ULSD

tank mpg 34.70 MPG
Fillup just prior to Hanna coming through
 

DK

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2002
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2014 TDI Golf 6 speed
driver: DK
miles: 762.6
gallons: 14.420
year: 2002
model: Golf GLS
tranny: 5m
fuel: ulsd +2 cycle

mpg: 52.884
c.p.m. at $4.399/ gal: $0.083:D
 
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Schwabe

Active member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Location
Grasonville, MD
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
2008-09-03
Driver: Schwabe
Miles: 803.9
Gallons: 14.9
Model Year: 2006
Model: Jetta TDI
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD





2008-09-24
Driver: Schwabe
Miles: 779.3
Gallons: 15.05
Model Year: 2006
Model: Jetta TDI
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD
 
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Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Driver: BonJonBart (Mrs. Lug_Nut)
Miles: 526.6
Gallons: 10.8
Model Year: 1997
Model: B4V
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: B100

Driver: Lug_Nut
Miles: 939.6
Gallons: 23.409
Model Year: 2005
Model: B5.5V
Tranny: 5A
Fuel Type: B94

Hers wasn't all that low, but it was there at the bio pump (.1 gal resolution), so I filled it.
Mine was filled (nearly so) from jugs at home and then vent filled at the local D2 pump (.001 gal resolution)
 

97pssat04golfTDIs

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Location
Rockville, Maryland USA
TDI
1997 Passat GLS TDI traded in, 2004 Golf GLS, 2004 Passat GLS Sold in Nov. 2012
9-4-08
Driver: DB (Ms97pssat04golfTDIs)
Miles: 503.6
Gallons: 16.102
Model Year: 2004
Model: Passat Wagon GLS
Tranny: 5A
Fuel Type: ULSD +ST

MPG: 31.275

The short trips always ruin the overall. this one actually had some highway miles on it maybe 150 at 75 or higher most of the time.
 
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MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
My first tank of September (on the 3rd, before this thread appeared):

Driver: MikeMars
Miles: 1008.5 miles
Gallons: 15.768 (59.69 litres = 13.130 imp gallons)
Model Year: 2000 (early)
Model: Passat 1.9TDi 115hp PD
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

Manually calculated usMPG: 63.9. Fuel was extremely foamy, the pump initially clicked off at 46 litres! (add more silicone oil, guys...). So don't trust this figure too much, but it should all average out in the long run.

* Trip computer claims 73.4 imperial mpg.
* Reserve light came on at 924.3 miles.
* Probably will be my final 1000 mile tank this year due to earlier nights / worsening weather etc.
 

Variant TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Location
SS, MD.
TDI
2002 Golf Variant, Reflex Silver
driver: Variant TDI
miles: 810.6
gallons: 15.566
year: 2002
model: Jetta Wagon
tranny: 5M
fuel: ULSD + PS

mpg = 52.08
 

tasdrouille

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Quebec
TDI
2000 A4
Driver: tasdrouille
Miles: 457.1
Gallons: 6.44
Model Year: 1999
Model: Vento
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 70.98

This was the "practice" run for my 3L challenge (3L/100km or 78 MPGUS)
Mostly secondary roads driving at 47 mph instead of taking highways, and 56 miles of city driving.

Driver: tasdrouille
Miles: 616
Gallons: 7.71
Model Year: 1999
Model: Vento
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 79.9

This was my official 3L run. 40 mph tank average in two non stop 7.5 hours 300 miles segments of country roads.
 

no_one_of_consequence

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Mexico
TDI
Jetta A4 2006
This is very impressive congratulations!!






Now, tell us how you did it, just by slowing down?
What is the kerb weight of your A3?,
Tires kind & pressure etc.




tasdrouille said:
Driver: tasdrouille
Miles: 457.1
Gallons: 6.44
Model Year: 1999
Model: Vento
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 70.98

This was the "practice" run for my 3L challenge (3L/100km or 78 MPGUS)
Mostly secondary roads driving at 47 mph instead of taking highways, and 56 miles of city driving.

Driver: tasdrouille
Miles: 616
Gallons: 7.71
Model Year: 1999
Model: Vento
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 79.9

This was my official 3L run. 40 mph tank average in two non stop 7.5 hours 300 miles segments of country roads.
 
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Joe TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Location
Neversink, NY
TDI
03, 00, 04 MK4 sedans.... 02 MK4 Wagon
Fill up #1
Driver: Joe TDI
Miles: 692.7
Gallons: 14.5
Model Year: 2003
Model: Jetta
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD + PS

MPG: 47.77
 
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tasdrouille

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Quebec
TDI
2000 A4
no_one_of_consequence said:
This is very impressive congratulations!!

Now, tell us how you did it, just by slowing down?
What is the kerb weight of your A3?,
Tires kind & pressure etc.
You can see my car following the link below, that'll explain some. Works wonderfully when coasting. Many will find it butt ugly, but I've grown a thick skin and prefer function over form.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/emgarage.php?do=details&vehicleid=87

Driving slowly is the key, at 40 mph on flat ground it gets 90+ mpg. Accelerating or going up steep hills I kept load in the 85-95% range as close to peak torque as possible.

Tires are actually winter tires (got 2 sets of winters with the car...) but pumped up at 50 psi.

Weight is stock, just modded the IAT sensor to get 2 degrees of timing advance and replaced the muffler with a straight pipe when it broke off. I replaced the rear bearings recently and packed them with nlgi 1.5 grade synth grease. I also removed the duct to the airbox so I can get a bit hotter air from the engine bay and blocked the external airflow to the ic to help increase the IAT a bit (although I'm hardly ever boosting).
 

Birdman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 1999
Location
Near Hagerstown MD.
TDI
Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
Driver:Birdman
Miles:889
Gallons:16.41
Model Year:2001
Model:Jetta
Tranny:5 (681)
Fuel Type Bio 5 Percent PS 6 OZ
VNT 17 RC4 PP520

First time trying the New Bio here in Hagerstown MD. It was 7 cents a gal. cheaper then diesel.
 

Erdrick

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Location
Detroit, Michigan
TDI
1998 Jetta
tasdrouille: You are getting THAT kind of mileage with THOSE tires?!? You do know that winter tires are much softer than regular tires, and have comparatively horrible LRR characteristics, right? I can only imagine what you would get with some nice LRR treads!

 

no_one_of_consequence

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Mexico
TDI
Jetta A4 2006
You numbers tasdrouille are those reported by scangauge? or did you vented the tank and calculated MPG by hand. Many here would like to see results from a whole tank.... including me. From your logs look like your are into hypermiling just recently, the mods shown in the pictures were made by that time?

Keep working
 

tasdrouille

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Quebec
TDI
2000 A4
Erdrick, I know I take a RR hit with those tires, but that just leaves room for improvement when I change them.

Talking about tire rolling resistance, 80% of RR in a tire comes from hysteresis (flexing) of the sidewall material. The other 20% is tread hysteresis and design. That's why increased pressure works so well, dramatically reducing hysteresis whatever the tire you're running.
 

Erdrick

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Location
Detroit, Michigan
TDI
1998 Jetta
Will have to look in to hysteresis and what it is all about. Hate to say that I am not familiar with the term. By your use of parentheses, I would guess that it means flexing... Either way, I have not seen percentage breakdown for rolling resistance before. Sounds interesting, but I would have thought that tread design and material would have a stronger correlation to a tire's rolling resistance.
 

tasdrouille

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Quebec
TDI
2000 A4
no_one_of_consequence said:
You numbers tasdrouille are those reported by scangauge? or did you vented the tank and calculated MPG by hand. Many here would like to see results from a whole tank.... including me. From your logs look like your are into hypermiling just recently, the mods shown in the pictures were made by that time?

Keep working
Scangauge is not accurate on my car. I have the same problem as many others where sg is too optimistic at low rpm and pessimistic at high rpm.

The mpg numbers are from actual pump and odo numbers (odo is spot on). I don't vent, but always slow fill at the same pump to the 2nd click.

I can understand many would like to see a full tank at those numbers, but it's not likely to happen as I don't think I'm gonna be driving 1000 miles like I did those 600. I rarely have the opportunity to take such a long trip. My usual commute is 7 miles each way in the city where I might get 60 mpg.

I started getting interested in pushing my mileage in March. Prior to my last two tanks I just had the airdam, the grill blocks and my tires pumped.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
tasdrouille said:
I also removed the duct to the airbox so I can get a bit hotter air from the engine bay and blocked the external airflow to the ic to help increase the IAT a bit (although I'm hardly ever boosting).
That HAI technique is effective on spark ignited cars where the fuel is drawn in during the intake stroke. Hotter air temperatures reduces 'condensation' of the fuel vapor/droplets and allows more complete combustion. The trade off is that warm air expands less when heated to some temperature than cold air heated to the same temperature. It's the difference between intake air temperature and combusted temperature that creates the pressure on the piston.
The HAI is counter effective in diesels. Blocking the intercooler cross flow air is also counter productive. A diesel, which does not have fuel drawn in during intake stroke, does not have this fuel 'condensation' effect. Colder air can't create 'puddles' of fuel when there isn't fuel in it yet. There is no increase in the completness of combustion to offset the lessened pressure differential. But colder air does expand more once that fuel is injected and combusted, increasing cylinder pressures, making more torque on the same fuel as warmed intake air,
or makes the same torque on less fuel.
You might wish to re-consider the HAI.
 

tasdrouille

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Quebec
TDI
2000 A4
Lug-Nut, that is interesting. I believe you are right about bad vaporization in SI engines which can be offset by higher intake temps. I however have read references that in modern FI systems less than 2% of the injected fuel is not properly vaporized.

Blocking the IC cross flow gives a small aero advantage. I did a lot of logging with vag-com, monitoring amongst other things IAT and boost with and without the IC blocked. The difference between the two, with the kind of highway driving I do was less than 15 F. I did not test going up a 10% grade for 1 mile though.

Some time ago I had gone through the litterature to investigate HAI/WAI, and I found the following:

- Pre-heated intake mixture at low rotational speed improves combustion. (Chiu and Horng, 1992)
- Specific fuel consumption varies inversely proportional to the square root of the suction air temperature (Nakajima et al. 1969).
- Higher ambient temperature is found to increase the flame speed, the combustion reaction rate, the uniformity of the fuel-air mixture and reduce the heat transfer rate though the cylinder walls (Pulkrabek, 1997).
- For lower temperatures, only a small part of the injected fuel is vaporized, causing nonhomogeneity. As a result, lower flame speeds, higher unburned mixture, higher hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide emissions, and loss of power are observed (Pulkrabek, 1997; Heywood, 1988).

References:
Chiu, C.P., and Horng, R.F., 1992, “Effects of Intake Air Temperature and
Residual Gas Concentration on Cycle-to-Cycle Combustion Variation in a
Two-Stroke Cycle S.I. Engine Equipped with an Air – Assisted Fuel Injection
System”, JSME International Journal, Vol. 37, N.4, pp. 957-965.

Nakajima, K., Shinoda, K., and Onoda, K., 1969, “Experiments on Effects
of Atmospheric Conditions on the Performance of an Automotive Gasoline
Engine”, SAE Transactions, SAE 690166, pp. 745-766.

Pulkrabek, W.W., 1997, “Engineering Fundamentals of the Internal
Combustion Engine”, Prentice Hall, Inc.

Heywood, J.B., 1989, “Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals”,
McGraw-Hill Book Co.

Finally, I'll post the most useful freely available paper I could find:

Changes of Low Load Engine Parameters by Temperature of Mixture

In this research, they were able to reduce BSFC at low RPM and low load by 7% at 195 F vs 100 F. Also, indicating that air density related reduced throttling losses have not much to do with it, they measured almost the same throtte position at those two temperatures.

Btw, if anyone is really interested in fuel economy, I compiled a lot of freely available research papers at the following url http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/fuel-economy-related-papers-1814.html
 
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ndamico

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2003 Golf 2Dr TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 2002 Duramax, 2003 Duramax
Driver: ndamico
Miles: 741
Gallons: 14.98
Model Year: 2003
Model: Jetta GLS
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 49.46
 

MPLSTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Location
Champlin, MN
TDI
06 Jetta DSG
Driver: MPLSTDI
Miles: 695.8
Gallons: 15.002
Model Year: 2006
Model: Jetta MKV
Tranny: DSG
Fuel Type: B2

MPG: 46.4 I drove it a little harder this tank to blow out the soot.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
tasdrouille,
I stand by my assertion that HAI is of no benefit in diesels.

Three of the five technical reports you cite have no bearing on diesels at all. They are pertinent to two stroke spark ignited (gasoline) engines, to automotive gasoline engines, and the last to engines using "throttling", which is not diesel.
The other two (Pulkrabek and Heywood) papers I didn't see.

Your blocking of the intercooler for improved aerodynamics is interesting. How did you block it without increasing the surface area above that of the finned area? A fairing at the bumper opening might have helped reduce the Cd, but obstructing the intercooler itself would increase the Cd.
 
Last edited:

tasdrouille

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Quebec
TDI
2000 A4
Lug_Nut said:
tasdrouille,
I stand by my assertion that HAI is of no benefit in diesels.

Three of the five technical reports you cite have no bearing on diesels at all. They are pertinent to two stroke spark ignited (gasoline) engines, to automotive gasoline engines, and the last to engines using "throttling", which is not diesel.
The other two (Pulkrabek and Heywood) papers I didn't see.
I respect your opinion.

Lug_Nut said:
Your blocking of the intercooler for improved aerodynamics is interesting. How did you block it without increasing the surface area above that of the finned area? A fairing at the bumper opening might have helped reduce the Cd, but obstructing the intercooler itself would increase the Cd.
Maybe I did not express myself appropriately. The bumper opening was in fact closed flush with the bumper.
 
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scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Sept 14

Driver: scooperhsd
Miles: 376.0
Gallons: 9.700
Model Year: 2000
Model: NB
Tranny: 4A
Fuel Type: ULSD

tank mpg 38.76 MPG
Month to date 611.5 miles , 16.486 gallons, 37.092 mpg
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Driver: Bob_Fout
Miles: 662.4
Gallons: 12.784
Model Year: 2003
Model: Jetta GLS
Tranny: 5M
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 51.8
 

MPLSTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Location
Champlin, MN
TDI
06 Jetta DSG
Driver: MPLSTDI
Miles: 677.6
Gallons: 14.459
Model Year: 2006
Model: Jetta MKV
Tranny: DSG
Fuel Type: B2

MPG: 46.9 Rain and wind kept it down, still not bad.
 

97pssat04golfTDIs

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Location
Rockville, Maryland USA
TDI
1997 Passat GLS TDI traded in, 2004 Golf GLS, 2004 Passat GLS Sold in Nov. 2012
Driver: 97pssat04golfTDIs
Miles: 671.0
Gallons: 16.55
Model Year: 2004
Model: Golf GLS
Tranny: 5A
Fuel Type: ULSD +PS

MPG: 40.544

It will be nice once I get my limp mode problem fixed, it makes it difficult to drive easy or even with the flow depending on when it goes. I have a guru working on it this Friday so hopefully next tank will be better.
 
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