Clean Diesel Cars Coming to US This Fall: 2008-2010 Timeline

[Ski in NC]

Put some of those Fords on the showroom floor and see if they sell. If not, send them back to Europe and I'll eat my shorts.

If the real reason is the cost in adapting them to US emission and safety standards, all I can hope for is our new administration will help tweak the rules. Now that is being hopefull!!

-Eric

[borderguy]

We did a fly/drive package to Scotland a couple years ago, were set up with a Ford Mondeo wagon out of Edinburgh & did nearly a full circumnavigation of the country on about one and a half tanks. The car is bigger than a 9-5 wagon, outfitted with every conceivable accessory, terrific torque, precise steering, etc., etc. Swallowed all the gear & then some for four of us and, despite its size, was a joy to drive even on sidewalk-size back roads (though we did have a few scary "wrong side" of the road moments). Consistently got 44-46 mpg and even at imperial, that's pretty damn good for a car that size & well-equipped - and driven by American geeks who pulled over about every five-hundred yards to gawk at the heather. We came home wanting one. But No, no can do, thanks to the pinheads at FoMoCo...

[no-blue-screen]

They are wrong about the Jeep Grand Cherokee. There are no 2009 Grand Cherokee CRDs being produced. Chrysler will continue to build them through the end of 2008 and they will have the 2009 options...but will be VINd as 2008 vehicles because of emissions.

Has anyone looked at that BMW? 265 Horses and 425 ft lb ....you will have to peel yourself out of the seat when you are done with that baby. I talked to a dealer about one before I got my jeep and they expect them to be around 45k to start....that is a little less than the E320. My jeep has close to 400 ft lb and man does this thing take off when you step down on it....I can't imagine all that power in a 3 series Beemer.

[MrSprdSheet]

Originally Posted by tdibigd

That's extremely impressive. I think Ford's reluctance (or refusal) to bring this to the US is pretty telling. Americans don't want diesels. It's going to take a familiar and widely desired vehicle like an Accord or Camry to make waves in reintroducing the diesel.

I think you and the media are grossly missinterpreting the situation. "California" and the "northeast" aren't hostile to diesel. Its the special interests which drive CARB that are ravenously opposed to it. The claims are diesel is "unpopular", "3%" of all cars and americans "don't like" it. Well, when you take California and the northeast out of the foreign car buying public, by LEGISLATION, you certainly won't be left with many diesels on our roads. Is that "unpopularity". As the article said, the economics don't make sence for introduction in the rest of the county, which just makes CARB salivate. The "big 3" won't push them.

Economics would trump marketing, and even the law, if the voices of reason could just get a microphone . I assert this is true without trying to champion VW in the slightest. We need that Ford. Ford needs that Ford! There are going to be 2 million people in the Prius soon. Is it the regenerative brakes, the inverter, the battery? No. Its mpgs that caused its demand to explode. The Prius got the total knee-jerk "gotta trade in the SUV" benifit of $4+ gasoline because, without diesel, it was practically the only efficient, perceived mid-line/high-line, vehicle.

What underestimation should we expect from "marketing" as to the total unit size of the combined >30mpg car segment? They can import the engines. None of this makes any business sence to me, but as long as we're getting more power and 1-2mpg better gas mileage we, the "popular" deciding public, have our marching orders. We will buy what they make and it will be defined as "popular".

[09tdiman]

they said vw will have there diesel cost 2k less
its 2-3k more from the order i made
btw mercedes bluetec i would buy but damn 43 state legals
pennsylavnia is one of them 7-8 states (i hate it)

[frugality]

Originally Posted by 09tdiman

btw mercedes bluetec i would buy but damn 43 state legals
pennsylavnia is one of them 7-8 states (i hate it)

You shouldn't have to wait too much longer. See the very bottom in bold.

17 October 2007
Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) unveiled a version of its E320 Bluetec diesel sedan that will immediately be available in limited numbers to California customers through a special limited mileage lease program. It is the first time in more than a decade that diesel cars are available in California.
Beginning October 15, MBUSA offers its E320 Bluetec to customers under a two-year/24,000 mile lease program. The E320 Bluetec is lease-priced on a par with its gasoline sibling, the E350, in spite of the higher cost of the diesel engine and aftertreatment system compared to the gasoline version.
“We hope California has shed its anti-diesel reputation by certifying this vehicle as the first diesel passenger car to meet the most stringent smog emission standards in the world,” said Tom Cackette, executive director of the California Air Resources Board (ARB).


The E320 Bluetec was launched in October 2006. It was certified as a Tier 2 Bin 8 vehicle (NOx = 0.20 g/mi), and available in the 45 states that follow federal emission standards. In California and in states that adopted California-style legislation, diesel cars must meet emission standards equivalent to at least Tier 2 Bin 5 (NOx = 0.07 g/mi).


The emission control system in the 2007 E320 Bluetec includes a close-coupled diesel oxidation catalyst, followed by a NOx adsorber catalyst, a diesel particulate filter, and an SCR catalyst (without urea injection). The NOx adsorber stores NOx emitted during lean operation, followed by regeneration at a rich exhaust condition, which is periodically achieved through an engine management strategy. During regeneration, the NOx adsorber produces some ammonia, which is stored in the downstream SCR catalyst, and used to further enhance NOx reduction through the SCR reaction.


One of the major issues with NOx adsorber technology is thermal durability, as the NOx storage capacity and conversion efficiency of the device deteriorate due to exposure to high temperatures (such as during desulfation). The mileage limit in the California lease program is an indication that the NOx adsorber-based E320 could meet Bin 5 emission requirements over the 24,000 mile period, but not over the vehicle full useful life of 120,000 miles.


The California lease program will function as a bridge to begin phasing in 50-state Bluetec vehicles nationwide starting in 2008, said MBUSA. In January 2008, the special lease program will be extended to other states which require California emissions. Later in 2008, Mercedes will introduce its M-, R- and GL-Class vehicles which will use SCR technology with urea (AdBlue) injection for NOx control to fully comply with Tier 2 Bin 5 emission standards.


Source: Mercedes-Benz

[DieselCruz]

Originally Posted by tdibigd

That's extremely impressive. I think Ford's reluctance (or refusal) to bring this to the US is pretty telling. Americans don't want diesels. It's going to take a familiar and widely desired vehicle like an Accord or Camry to make waves in reintroducing the diesel.

I also disagree. Americans DO want diesels, they just don't have the market exposure yet.

If the automakers were to pitch these small fuel-sipping diesels the same way that they have bombarded us with images of huge SUVs and high HP sports cars, they would be flooded with demand for small diesels.

It is like a combined one-two punch. First, diesel passenger vehicles were essentially banned in the states with major population centers. Second, the image of a smart driver in a small, fuel-sipping diesel has been ignored in the media. All the while, the automakers have been promoting a transition to "cross-over" vehicles (basically an over-weight station wagon, or a SUV without any real off-road capability) in their advertising campaigns.

For the buyers who are clued in enough to see through the "cross-over" BS, the automakers have promoted gas-electric hybrids. Nowhere in the US will you find a substantial advertising campaign behind diesel light passenger vehicles (excepting a small effort from VW). Certainly, the US automakers have made no effort - we are all still waiting for the Volt... or an even longer wait for the "cure-all" fuel-cell vehicle...

Advertising plays a huge role in this. I think that advertising to promote demand is as important as the regulatory aspect. We need to allow light passenger diesels in the populated states again. (Here's an idea, ban personal diesel pickup trucks - it will more than offset the emissions from the diesel cars... ) Of course, even with a good advertising campaign, diesel light passenger vehicles will still need to be competitive in the market place, something MBZ (with diesel cars that cost ~$50K) has not figured out yet...

[tdibigd]

Originally Posted by DieselCruz

I also disagree. Americans DO want diesels, they just don't have the market exposure yet.

OK, that's a little different way of saying it, and I don't disagree with your forward-looking statement...but I think we differ on tense. Americans DON'T (present tense) want diesels now because of the antiquated diesel stigma/perception. I think that your assertion that Americans (future tense) [will] want diesels could very well be true, and I suspect it is to some degree...IF a satisfactory PR job is pulled off.... However, no one is pulling it off as of the time of this writing. No one of any significance is even trying. I hope you're correct - I would love to have a menu of reasonable diesels from which to choose my next vehicle.

[tdibigd]

Originally Posted by MrSprdSheet

I think you and the media are grossly missinterpreting the situation.

I don't think I am. There's no run on diesels right now. There's no significant consumer demand for diesel technology right now...because there is a lack of education, and alternative solutions (hybrids) have advanced in the buyer's colloquial thought process much more quickly with more choice. I agree that given the proper PR, there could be demand for diesels, which is why I'd love to see that Ford here. It just doesn't exist right now.

I'm no fan of the media or CARB...I am a realist, however. Here's to hoping a big name will successfully swoop in such that we have more choice in the future.

[donfromnaples]

"colloquial thought process" is nonsensical. I would suggest that you stop trying to impress everyone with your vocabulary. It comes across as haughty and condescending. Thank you.

[09tdiman]

if they ever brought the subaru diesel over here id buy it in a heartbeat
they sound sick

[nykayaker]

Originally Posted by donfromnaples

I would suggest that you stop trying to impress everyone with your vocabulary.

Hmm, somebody had a bad day.

[wesk1954]

Originally Posted by 09tdiman

they said vw will have there diesel cost 2k less
its 2-3k more from the order i made
btw mercedes bluetec i would buy but damn 43 state legals
pennsylavnia is one of them 7-8 states (i hate it)

The 09 MB BlueTec's are touted to be 50 state legal, just as is the Jetta TDI.

Are you saying there are still states (such as PA) that won't allow their sale?

Wes

[atc98002]

Originally Posted by wesk1954

The 09 MB BlueTec's are touted to be 50 state legal, just as is the Jetta TDI.

Are you saying there are still states (such as PA) that won't allow their sale?

Wes

I just checked the MB web site, and only the BlueTec SUVs are 50 state. The E320 is not available in 10 states (Oregon and Washington now included , yes PA is also one of them). I guess they haven't added the adBlue solution to the E Class yet.

Bummer. I hate that my state has adopted the CARB regs as well. I priced an E320 the way I'd want one, and it has jumped (for 2009) to over $63,000. Not a chance! I'm betting the BMW 335d will top out around $54-55,000. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

[CentralFloridaTDIguy]

Originally Posted by tdibigd

OK, that's a little different way of saying it, and I don't disagree with your forward-looking statement...but I think we differ on tense. Americans DON'T (present tense) want diesels now because of the antiquated diesel stigma/perception. I think that your assertion that Americans (future tense) [will] want diesels could very well be true, and I suspect it is to some degree...IF a satisfactory PR job is pulled off.... However, no one is pulling it off as of the time of this writing. No one of any significance is even trying. I hope you're correct - I would love to have a menu of reasonable diesels from which to choose my next vehicle.

VWoA should hook up with one of the major car rental firms and give them a sweet deal on Jetta TDIs to offer for rent across the US or even just at popular vacation locations (Las Vegas, Orlando, etc) to get cheap word of mouth advertising.... Have the car companies have the renters sign an additional disclosure for people who choose the TDI about liability for putting RUG, MUG or PUG into the vehicle that they are liable for repairs and loss of revenue.... whatcha think about that idea?