Clean Diesel Cars Coming to US This Fall: 2008-2010 Timeline

[lojasmo]

I need a diesel for my wife. Unfortunately, because she is required to get a UAW/CAW car, the only choice, the Cherokee, defeats the purpose. Crap.

[CentralFloridaTDIguy]

Originally Posted by lojasmo

I need a diesel for my wife. Unfortunately, because she is required to get a UAW/CAW car, the only choice, the Cherokee, defeats the purpose. Crap.

why is that?

[NarfBLAST]

CAW = Canadian Auto Workers Union
UAW = United Auto Workers Union

[jvance]

Originally Posted by lojasmo

I need a diesel for my wife. Unfortunately, because she is required to get a UAW/CAW car, the only choice, the Cherokee, defeats the purpose. Crap.

Does it help any that the Puebla plant is unionized?

[obie84]

Originally Posted by tdisedanman

I'd be comfortable with an Acura diesel product even though the dealership would need to train techs. VW has had diesels in country on and off over the years but I don't feel that their service dept and techs are uber knowledgeable.

Local Acura dealer told me yesterday that Diesel TSX (Euro Accord) will be here in May 2009.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by obie84

Local Acura dealer told me yesterday that Diesel TSX (Euro Accord) will be here in May 2009.

The diesel TSX looks to be the second 4 cylinder diesel that is confirmed to go on sale. There hasn't been much of confirmation for any other 4 cylinder diesels. Of course the price will likely be 5-10,000 more than the Jettas.

[bluengreen]

What this basically says is that VWoA only has so long to keep screwing the pooch on their Hurricane Katrina marketing of the 09 Jetta TDI. If you boys ain't willing to do it right - someone else will.
Honda just has to dump the engine into the Accord (which will shave $ difference down), publicize the Tax rebate and then make deliveries to people who order cars- the part VWoA can't get right. Hey the good part is they'll have these great powerpoint slides of everything VWoA did wrong to ensure they get it right.
The better product won't win the day if it gets enough bananna peels strewn in front of it. If VWoA stops running a bananna plantation and starts selling cars- Who knows, with just the tiniest attention to marketing VWoA could actually watch the competition recede in the rear view mirror of a car with their own badge on it, maybe even a mythical '09 TDI.

Originally Posted by chewy

The diesel TSX looks to be the second 4 cylinder diesel that is confirmed to go on sale. There hasn't been much of confirmation for any other 4 cylinder diesels. Of course the price will likely be 5-10,000 more than the Jettas.

[chewy]

The thing is, Honda doesn't appear to want to sell a diesel Accord (the full size 194 inch one) Honda has no problems selling 40,000+ each month with the 21/31 4 cylinder Accord, or the 19/29 V6 version. How many people (besides VW abandoners) woudl get really excited about fuel economy no better than what the Jetta TDI gets.

Yes, an Accord with fuel economy better than a Civic sounds like an excellent idea. But, the US market generally doesn't follow this reasoning, and Honda knows the US market very well.

[cptmox]

Originally Posted by buckeye96

What numbers are optimistic? The subaru numbers are below what the car is getting in the UK (even with the imperial gallon conversion). The audi and Benz seem low and the honda hwy mileage is the only one that seems high.

In fact looking at the Subaru numbers and converting them they match up almost exactly.

Seems like all cars carry a better MPG rating in Europe than in NA.

Either:

The European driving cycle EPA numbers are more optimistic than what we used to have here in the states.

or cars are made differently in some way that allows better mpg - perhaps gearing, emissions, weight, or all of the above.

Whatever. I would bet that when that Acura TSX gets here, it will carry something like 28 city, 35 highway. As frustrating and disappointing as that is, it would be par for the course.

[lojasmo]

Originally Posted by jvance

Does it help any that the Puebla plant is unionized?

Unfortunately, no. She needs an American or Canadian assembled UAW/CAW car.

She is a political organizer, and needs an American (or Canadian) made UAW/CAW car in order to get reimbersed.

[cyberdiesel]

Originally Posted by obie84

Local Acura dealer told me yesterday that Diesel TSX (Euro Accord) will be here in May 2009.

Sweet ..... perfect timing for a reliable 55mpg four door sedan ....! And the TSX is a sweet ride indeed!

[donfromnaples]

Likely will get an EPA rating of 29 city and 40 highway. Sound familiar.

[TeeDeeRedEye]

This comes from Business Week:




The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have

Ford's Fiesta ECOnetic gets an astonishing 65 mpg, but the carmaker can't afford to sell it in the U.S.

The ECOnetic will go on sale in Europe in November

by David Kiley
This Issue

September 15, 2008



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• Slide Show: Americans Might Like These Fuel-Sipping Cars

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If ever there was a car made for the times, this would seem to be it: a sporty subcompact that seats five, offers a navigation system, and gets a whopping 65 miles to the gallon. Oh yes, and the car is made by Ford Motor (F), known widely for lumbering gas hogs.
Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic goes on sale in November. But here's the catch: Despite the car's potential to transform Ford's image and help it compete with Toyota Motor (TM) and Honda Motor (HMC) in its home market, the company will sell the little fuel sipper only in Europe. "We know it's an awesome vehicle," says Ford America President Mark Fields. "But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.
Automakers such as Volkswagen (VLKAY) and Mercedes-Benz (DAI) have predicted for years that a technology called "clean diesel" would overcome many Americans' antipathy to a fuel still often thought of as the smelly stuff that powers tractor trailers. Diesel vehicles now hitting the market with pollution-fighting technology are as clean or cleaner than gasoline and at least 30% more fuel-efficient.
Yet while half of all cars sold in Europe last year ran on diesel, the U.S. market remains relatively unfriendly to the fuel. Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline. Add to this the success of the Toyota Prius, and you can see why only 3% of cars in the U.S. use diesel. "Americans see hybrids as the darling," says Global Insight auto analyst Philip Gott, "and diesel as old-tech."
None of this is stopping European and Japanese automakers, which are betting they can jump-start the U.S. market with new diesel models. Mercedes-Benz by next year will have three cars it markets as "BlueTec." Even Nissan (NSANY) and Honda, which long opposed building diesel cars in Europe, plan to introduce them in the U.S. in 2010. But Ford, whose Fiesta ECOnetic compares favorably with European diesels, can't make a business case for bringing the car to the U.S.
TOO PRICEY TO IMPORT

First of all, the engines are built in Britain, so labor costs are high. Plus the pound remains stronger than the greenback. At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic.
Ford plans to make a gas-powered version of the Fiesta in Mexico for the U.S. So why not manufacture diesel engines there, too? Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves. Besides, the automaker would have to produce at least 350,000 engines a year to make such a venture profitable. "We just don't think North and South America would buy that many diesel cars," says Fields.
The question, of course, is whether the U.S. ever will embrace diesel fuel and allow automakers to achieve sufficient scale to make money on such vehicles. California certified VW and Mercedes diesel cars earlier this year, after a four-year ban. James N. Hall, of auto researcher 293 Analysts, says that bellwether state and the Northeast remain "hostile to diesel." But the risk to Ford is that the fuel takes off, and the carmaker finds itself playing catch-up—despite having a serious diesel contender in its arsenal.
Kiley is a senior correspondent in BusinessWeek's Detroit bureau.

At 65mpg, this beats VW pretty badly.

[jvance]

At 65mpg, this beats VW pretty badly.

No it doesn't. First, that's Imperial gallons. Second, that's Euro cycle not EPA. I doubt it would get much better under the EPA methodology than the Jetta TDI.

EDIT - no, wait, that's US mpg in the combined, not highway cycle. Pretty impressive. EPA numbers will be lower but still impressive.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07...c-63-5-mpg-us/

[tdibigd]

That's extremely impressive. I think Ford's reluctance (or refusal) to bring this to the US is pretty telling. Americans don't want diesels. It's going to take a familiar and widely desired vehicle like an Accord or Camry to make waves in reintroducing the diesel.