SMIC Options (Upgrade)

Farfromovin · Aug 10, 2008

Yeah, I was kinda bummed the IAT's were as high as 129 after hearing other people claiming numbers like 110-120. Then I realized it was over 90 deg here when I did that. That and I never went any quicker than 75-80mph during the testing. That was really about the worst test I could do for the IAT's IMO. I'm sure if I was bookin' at 110-120 it would lower quite a bit.
The EJ came with only the SMIC and two bolts for the Map sensor. I just stacked up 8-10 washers to lower the bracket down and got a couple longer 6mm bolts that hold it up top.

PLAN_B · Aug 10, 2008

tothemax said:
Thank you. This is a great job. i will try it a well. I am sure that the ari flows as well through this set up as the $40 one from 1stvwparts.com

Did you use a propane torch to heat the plastic or a heat gun?

tnx

P

Thank you!

Heat gun to soften the plastic before I cut and then again to bend the vents (wear gloves to keep from burning your fingers, trust me). Score the plastic lightly once or twice before cutting all the way through to ensure a straight cut.

After doing it this way I would never pay for a liner or expend the effort to attach a vent in there (which was my first inclination). This was so easy and is very effective.

I live in AZ and travel quite a bit so I've had lots of opportunity to put it to the test. I didn't do back to back runs, but I can definitely tell the difference on some of the really long uphill grades through the mountains. Around town I can't feel any benefit, I'm curious what before & after numbers would show, temperature-wise. (hint, hint!)

TDikook · Aug 12, 2008

I just got off the phone with Scott at NGP. he is looking into it further for me(us) as to what can be done with the PD C-clip situation. this is getting interesting. more to come later.

Eric B

edited for spelling: NGP

Nash_TDI · Aug 12, 2008

Very interested in the results. Let us all know!

dieselpower04 · Aug 12, 2008

Subscribed

MAXRPM · Aug 12, 2008

I did my EJ SMIC installation about 1 1/2 week ago in my Jetta, and it was fairly easy, the only thing was the spacer on the bottom bracket, I just used a big nut as a spacer and no problem, what I did not try to install was the shroud over it, thinking that it would not fit, but now looking at farfromovin pics, it is showing that he was able to install the shroud, I am going to try to put the shroud now. how did you clip the shroud on the SMIC farfromovin?

mtltdi · Aug 12, 2008

Aah, I missed the boat on the NGP deal! they're back to $619.

TDikook · Aug 13, 2008

Dammit!! Oh well.

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

Farfromovin said:
Yeah, I was kinda bummed the IAT's were as high as 129 after hearing other people claiming numbers like 110-120. Then I realized it was over 90 deg here when I did that.

What were your IAT's before the upgraded SMIC ?
I'm starting to think that these upgraded SMIC's aren't getting you guys what you think your getting.

TDikook · Aug 13, 2008

I dont know Scott, the temp here in the South is soo hot, and the difference from here on the Gulf Coast to the North, where you are at, it (location) makes a difference. ANY extra cooling will do wonders here. While I was in Wisconsin two weeks ago I couldnt get my IAT above 130* , where as here I can hit 200* doing the same thing.

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

TDikook said:
I dont know Scott, the temp here in the South is soo hot, and the difference from here on the Gulf Coast to the North, where you are at, it (location) makes a difference. ANY extra cooling will do wonders here. While I was in Wisconsin two weeks ago I couldnt get my IAT above 130* , where as here I can hit 200* doing the same thing.

I was beating on my car a little the other day and it was 85degF out, and i saw 135-140degF with the stock SMIC. If you guys are seeing around 200degF down there, then i guess getting that down to 135degF is pretty darn good with an aftermarket SMIC.

Bob_Fout · Aug 13, 2008

Scott02 said:
I was beating on my car a little the other day and it was 85degF out, and i saw 135-140degF with the stock SMIC. If you guys are seeing around 200degF down there, then i guess getting that down to 135degF is pretty darn good with an aftermarket SMIC.

With an upgraded SMIC you'd not see over 110*F or 115*F under those same conditions. See my post about it here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=221234

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

Bob_Fout said:
With an upgraded SMIC you'd not see over 110*F or 115*F under those same conditions. See my post about it here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=221234

You said that 110 was your cruising speed with ambient near 85-ish... What if you were beating the snot out of it ?

For clarification, lets make a little chart... Copy/Paste what i have below, and add what you see on your car.
(max IAT is BEATING on your car, not cruising)

Ambient temp... Max IAT's... Deg's of Temp swing... what IC
85degF........... 135degF..... 50degF..................... Stock

Bob_Fout · Aug 13, 2008

Scott my post has both cruising and merging/WOT accell numbers.

From my post:
"With the stock SMIC and my power mods as of now (Sprint 520s, an 18 PSI Gator tune and the stock VNT-15) I would see peak IATs of 140*F to 160*F when briskly merging on the Interstate (70 to 80 MPH). By the time I got the top half of 3rd, it seemed like it was petering out, and certainly in 4th too. Today when merging IATs never went over 115*F, and it didn't lose grunt late in 3rd and 4th.

Today's ambient temp was 90*F, cruising IATs were 100*F. With the stock IC, it would have been 110*F to 120*F."

Farfromovin · Aug 13, 2008

Scott02 said:
What were your IAT's before the upgraded SMIC ?
I'm starting to think that these upgraded SMIC's aren't getting you guys what you think your getting.

Scott, I cannot claim a before and after test first of all but here's the rundown. I looked at my old logs from getting my alligator tune for my 1856. I did 4th gear runs at insane speeds (triple digits). I don't know what the ambient temp was but my IAT's were 180 degF at triple digit license revoking speeds. That was my "Pre".

"Post" was done with the nastiest possible combo I could put together. I tried to have sustain max boost in the lowest possible gears to keep the speed down to lessen the cooling effect. I have a quiet, twisty road by me that I jumped on and just beat the car. I would hammer in 4th on the straights, jam the brakes for the corner, downshift and slow waaaay down in third or even second(30mph) then redline, slow down, redline, slow down and repeat, over and over for about 10 minutes. The whole time I was logging and checked afterwards, never got over 129 degF I think. This test had ambient temps in the low 90's.

Bottom line, my pre test was "easier" in my mind on the IAT's due to the high moving speeds. The post test spent 75% of the time under 60mph.

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

Scott02 said:
Ambient temp... Max IAT's... Deg's of Temp swing... what IC
85degF........... 135degF..... 50degF..................... Stock
xx degF........... 115degF..... xx degF.................... Tryolsport

Sorry I didn't read it perfectly, BUT can you tell me the abient temp of that day ?

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

Farfromovin said:
Scott... my IAT's were 180 degF at triple digit license revoking speeds. That was my "Pre".

"Post" was... redline, slow down, redline, slow down and repeat, over and over for about 10 minutes... never got over 129 degF I think. This test had ambient temps in the low 90's.

Good info! That's how to find max IAT's !

Ambient temp... Max IAT's... Deg's of Temp swing... what IC / turbo
85degF........... 135degF..... 50degF..................... Stock / Stock
xx degF........... 115degF..... xx degF.................... Tryolsport / Stock
90degF........... 129degF..... 39degF..................... Eurojet / 1856

Bob_Fout · Aug 13, 2008

Scott02 said:
Good info! That's how to find max IAT's !

Ambient temp... Max IAT's... Deg's of Temp swing... what IC
85degF........... 135degF..... 50degF..................... Stock
90 degF........... 115degF..... 25 degF.................... Tryolsport
90degF........... 129degF..... 39degF..................... Tryolsport

I filled the info in.

Note that max IATs with the stock IC was 160*F under the same conditions. I also have relatively small nozzles, a small turbo and low boost compared to some others with upgraded SMICs.

Farfromovin · Aug 13, 2008

Scott, please change mine to a Eurojet IC. As Bob stated, turbo's matter as well. I may have had higher IAT's then you because I'm pushing 25psi...

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

Farfromovin said:
Scott, please change mine to a Eurojet IC. As Bob stated, turbo's matter as well. I may have had higher IAT's then you because I'm pushing 25psi...

Ahead of you on adding the turbo size, hehe !
Edited previous post to show Eurojet.

Bob_Fout · Aug 13, 2008

Scott02 said:
Ahead of you on adding the turbo size, hehe !

Which turbo it is needs to be listed too, since the BEW/BRM turbo is surely better than the ALHs? You almost need a full list of non-cosmetic mods along with the IAT differences

Scott02 · Aug 13, 2008

Farfromovin said:
Scott, please change mine to a Eurojet IC. As Bob stated, turbo's matter as well. I may have had higher IAT's then you because I'm pushing 25psi...

You won't have higher IAT's from pushing 25psi with an 1856... "IF" the turbo is running in a more efficient operating range when compared to a vnt15 at 18psi. (Neglecting IC piping losses of course, we won't get into this here.)

dieselpower04 · Aug 13, 2008

I will add my pre-SMIC upgrade numbers. Ambient temps around 90-93*F , moderate acceleration from stop lights = 170*F AIT (stock SMIC).

This was with a VNT-17/22, BEW Golf and RC3 tune.

If someone would make A SM INTERCOOLER HOSE KIT FOR MY CAR I will buy a better intercooler and let you know how much they get dropped under similar conditions...

4lowdubs · Aug 14, 2008

mtltdi said:
Aah, I missed the boat on the NGP deal! they're back to $619.

Man! I knew it was too good to last

!!

4lowdubs · Aug 14, 2008

Farfromovin said:
I'm not EJ, but I do know the reality. The reality is it's the SAME intercooler. Just as others have posted, we buy 1.8t SMIC's used from Vortex. Now, those of us with ALH's will have easier plug and play results than those of us with PD's due to our hose connections. The mounting locations of the hoses and the SMIC itself are the same between 1.8t and TDI. That being said, the EJ unit does not fit perfect, but it fits well. Mine required no trimming, but it didn't just drop into place. I had to lower the bottom bracket about 1" with spacers to get it to bolt in. This unit I installed came shipped directly from EJ to my house as the "TDI" SMIC as well. I'm sure it's the same as the 1.8T SMIC. Only difference being that hose kit. That hose kit won't work ideally for us either because our compressor hose has a clip connection to the pancake pipe. EJ's pancake pipe replacement has a regular push on style connection. Now, if you wanted to use EJ's pancake pipe (why not, it's sure purdy), you could probably get away with it but you would need a real slick silicone hose to replace the factory compressor hose. By real slick, I mean custom, and by custom I mean impossible to find and by impossible, I really mean possible as long as you feel like spending a couple hundred bucks for a one off tooling setup from a silicone company In other words, get the EJ SMIC, with the hose, you may be able to sell it on Vortex for some cash. The neuspeed hose for 1.8t's is nearly identical and sells for about $100...

If your right about that, then here's the ticket! $499 SMIC, no pipes.

http://www.ngpracing.com/store/index.php?target=products&product_id=3408

TDikook · Aug 17, 2008

just a bump, and a question for Milehigh,

did you install anything? how is your journey progressing. I have been scouring the net to find a solution, still none.
I called NGP the other day, the dude I talked to is on vacation, but will return this week. we shall see if anything new has come up there.
Dammit the Joys of owning a PD!!!

3L3M3NT · Aug 17, 2008

Well I'm in the market for a SMIC and figured I would just post in here.

Well I have an 04 BEW that is going to be upgraded to a VNT-17/22 turbo with a 2.5" turbo back exhaust. I currently have a Panzer plate, so if I were to upgrade to a different SMIC I would like to keep my Panzer plate and if I have to modify the panzer plate to accomidate the SMIC I will

So any tips as to what aftermarket SMIC works the th Panzer plate with little or no modification that would be helpful.

Thanks in advance for any help.

TDikook · Aug 17, 2008

well, If you have followed this at all, you would see that the big problem is the people with PD's(you included) are having issues due to the connections asociated with the intercoolers, i.e. the C-clip connections. until a replacement can be found, there is no replacement yet.

as for the Panzar plate, that is going to depend on the SMIC you choose, I read that a few have installed a SMIC with no problem and some have had to modify the plate a bit for the IC to fit.

milehighassassin · Aug 17, 2008

I have not received the intercooler yet. Kinda bummed about that. I do have a Panzer plate so I can give an update to that as well. I am working on a source for the replacement C-Clip hoses. We'll see.

I will update with pics and data logging as soon as the intercooler arrives.

3L3M3NT · Aug 18, 2008

TDikook said:
well, If you have followed this at all, you would see that the big problem is the people with PD's(you included) are having issues due to the connections asociated with the intercoolers, i.e. the C-clip connections. until a replacement can be found, there is no replacement yet.

as for the Panzar plate, that is going to depend on the SMIC you choose, I read that a few have installed a SMIC with no problem and some have had to modify the plate a bit for the IC to fit.

I saw the C-clip issue, but I'm not familiar with the connections to the intercooler on the PD, so I'm kind of lost on that issue.

Looking to learn so hopefully there is something out there that will work.

SMIC Options (Upgrade)

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