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TDI Cars for Sale/Wanted VW TDI/Diesel cars for sale and wanted.

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Old July 21st, 2008, 11:29   #1
Bio-D
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Default Nice Cars Company, Bellingham, WA

If this is the wrong place to alert fellow TDI club members please forgive me and remove.

I welcome anyone with positive dealings with this dealer to ring in - I just feel it is important that others are aware of our experience with Bob at Nice Cars Company in Bellingham, WA

Text of complaint filed with Washington Attorney Generals office:

I have just returned from an incredibly negative experience with a car dealer in Bellingham, WA. This car dealership, named “Nice Cars”. The owner, Bob, had advertised a “RESTORED” 1996 Passat TDI Wagon. We conversed back and forth via email and phone to discuss in depth the quality of the restoration process of this vehicle. Here is a quote from one of Bob’s email messages:

We currently have 4-1996 Passat TDI wagons here. Two are sold and about done. That leaves two that haven’t been sold yet. One is black, the other is a dark blue, called “Windsor Blue”. The blue one has 178K miles which is not high for a 12 year old car and certainly not high for one of these. We know of several of these with 500K miles and one with 661 K miles. This blue wagon has had a complete repaint. Mostly due to hood and bumper rock chips and being “keyed” completely down one side. So we took off the bumpers, grill, headlights, taillights, door handles, deck lid, hood, etc.. The body and all the pieces were painted separately with base/clear urethane paint. The pieces were all color sanded with 2000 grit, buffed and re-assembled. The cloth seats were removed as most of our customers prefer the leather seats, the carpet was removed, cleaned and reinstalled. The hinges and latches have been oiled and new door handles will go in the two front doors. The drivers window riser mechanism is being replaced. This car has the new timing belt and Tensioner, new water pump, new serpentine belt and Tensioner, new Pentosynth synthetic German oil and Bosch filter, new alternator belt, flushed cooling system, new, correct phosphate free coolant, new battery, new fuel filter, new air filter, new fuel lines, new vacuum hoses, new relays, new VW chrome emblems, new wheel bearings, new brake pads, new brake rotors, new tires, front end alignment, charged A/C system, timed injection pump, cleaned injectors, new glow plug rail, new N-75 Turbo sensor, new light bulbs, new 4-way flashers, new windshield and other numerous upgrades. The black one or the blue will be $17,000 with leather, $16,500 without.

When asked directly about rust and bondo, Bob assured me that the car was was clean and had been repaired correctly, that it would be mechanically sound and very nice. We agreed upon a price of $16,000 for this car which had 178,000 miles. While this is an expensive price for a car of this age and mileage, I figured it was worth it due to the completeness of the restoration which described to me by Bob through our communication.

In working out the details of the transaction, Bob had just purchased a different 1996 Passat wagon in our home town of Missoula, MT. He asked me to deliver this car to him while I was picking up our “restored” Passat wagon. On Tuesday July15th, my family and I drove to Seattle, WA and spent the night. On Wednesday July 16th, we drove north to Bellingham, WA. Upon arriving and inspecting our new car, it was clear that the condition of the car was not as described by Bob. The “restored” car had just been painted and a lot of rust had been covered up. The passenger side front fender had a two inch rust hole at the bottom where it attaches to the rocker panel. The underside of the car had rust in every seam. The muffler was completely eaten away with rust. On the running gear of the car all the bolts and metal parts were covered with rust. In the engine compartment all the metal clamps and screws were covered with rust. On the interior of the vehicle many of the attaching screws were covered with rust. Bob’s reaction to my analysis of the condition of the car was one of anger. He began yelling at me for pointing out the many flaws of the car and the inaccuracy of his description of the “restoration” of this car. It was immediately clear that we would not be purchasing this car from Bob.

Due to the fact that we had delivered another vehicle to Bob, we did not have transportation to get back home. When I asked Bob to pay for a rental car for us to get home, he shrugged his shoulders, turned and he walked away. After several hours of deliberating about our options, we agreed to spend the night in the Seattle area and return the next day to view another car that they were working on. We were allowed to leave in the car we delivered from Montana. After having some time to think about it, my wife and I agreed that we did not want to have anything to do with any vehicle from “Nice Cars” company. We called Bob numerous times starting the evening of Wednesday July 16th, and continuing through the 11:35 am Thursday July 17th. At 11:54 am, Bob finally returned our calls and again became irate at our refusal of purchasing one of his vehicles. We had arranged for a one-way rental through Hertz Rental Car of Bellevue, WA. Bob agreed to meet us in Bellevue to take delivery of his vehicle and pay for our rental car home. We waited for three hours for Bob to arrive at the Red Lion Inn on 112th Ave. in Bellevue. Upon his arrival, I handed him the keys, the title and the bill of sale for the car we delivered from Montana. At that point, I questioned Bob regarding the reimbursement for the rental car. He again became irate, began yelling and refused to pay the $203 it cost us to rent the car from Hertz. We quickly loaded up our rental car and left for home.

I am writing this to you in hopes that we can spare others from being scammed by this dishonest dealer. I am not seeking any reimbursement or compensation for my expenses; I am simply hoping to help others avoid this dishonest dealer and his extremely volatile interactions.


Example of Bob’s Nice Car ad that I responded to: (this is not the original ad I responded to)

1996 Passat TDI GLS Wagon, B4V - Rarest TDI of All


Reply to: sale-758061161@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-07-16, 6:50PM PDT


Very Rare 1996 VW Passat GLS TDI WAGON, many upgrades, see below. The "B4V", rarest TDI of all!
In the 18 Year history of the Passat, the 1.9 Turbo Diesel was only available in 1996 and 97.
Only 1,200 sold in North America, 980 of the 1200 sold in the U.S.
This is #126 of the original 980 1996 Passat TDI wagons. Very Rare "GLS" model
German Built, Wolfsburg Edition. LARGEST VW Wagon ever, AND up to 50 MILES PER GALLON!!!

Very high quality, smooth running road car. A Left lane Autobahn car!
Last of the Audi built 1.9 Turbo Diesels. Rarest color of all - Tornado Red!
25 Gallon fuel tank allows up to 1,200 MILES A TANK!!! -Biodiesel Ready!
These are the rarest TDI of all, the "Crown Jewel" of the TDIs.
The 1996 Passat TDI had the best (Audi Built) body, the best version of the 1.9 Turbo Diesel
and the best Transmission of all the TDIs.

Some of the Upgrades/Restoration Work Done to Ready this Wagon for its New Owner:
New Timing Belt and Tensioner
New Serpentine Belt and Tensioner
New Water Pump
New GLX-VR6 Driving Lights
New Brakes/Rotors on GLX-VR6 hubs
New OEM Turn Signals
New PENTOSIN TEILSYNTHETISCH Synthetic Oil, Bosch Filter
(Oil made in Germany for VW Diesel Engines)
New Fuel Filter, Bosch
New Air Filter, MAHLE
New Cabin Filter, MAHLE
2004 VW-GTI Alloy Wheels
New VW Phosphate Free Coolant
Michelin Tires
Original Heidleburg Stereo
New Battery
New Drive Axles
New Wheel Bearing
New Ignition Module
New Antenna Assembly
New VW, Passat and TDI Emblems
Heated Black Leather Seats
Tuned up, Timed pump, Ready to go!
Odometer Reading of only 131,000 Miles

Things this TDI DOES NOT have:
Does Not Have a salvage/rebuilt title
Does Not Have a check engine light on
Does Not Have a disconnected check engine light
Does Not Have any dents in Original Tornado Red Paint
Does Not Have an ash tray used for Smoking Debris
Does Not Have a broken cup holder
Does Not Have any malfunctioning electrical components
Did Not have any animals in the car

ONE YEAR WARRANTY AND Certified Insurance Value Appraisal

WHO IS SELLING THIS TDI?
This TDI is being offered by a shop that specializes in TDI Volkswagens
NICE CARS COMPANY, Bellingham, Washington. Independent 20 year Volkswagen Dealer
Certified VW TDI repair shop. Correct TDI OEM VW parts. Lots of diesel VWs, Restoration, Maintenance, Service.

Phone - 360-398-2854 - Open Noon to 7 P.M. - Mon - Sat Closed Sunday
E-mail - vwsforsale@hotmail.com


Other TDI Wagons available * Other TDI Wagons available * Other TDI Wagons available
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Old July 21st, 2008, 13:09   #2
airwolf
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You failed to mention if any of your communications included pictures? If pictures were asked for and were refused that would / should have been huge warning sign. If you did not ask for pictures and went off of someones word you are very trusting. Pictures would be a requirement for me going out of state to buy anything.

If I were doing what you did, I would have worked out a 'price' (read contract) for you delivering a vehicle if you decide to not purchase a car from him. The price would have been a per mile charge plus all expenses to get back home.

While this company might not be the most forthright and honest, you also bear some of the responsibility in do your research as well more so than just phone conversations.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 14:55   #3
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I dunno! Both parties here are to blame. First off, $16K for a B4V with 178K is way out of line to begin with let alone the $17K it was originally asked for. If you turn the tables around and ask if you could pull such a shanaghan as this Bob character did, I would guess that most here couldn't. We surely haven't heard Bob's side of the story but, I think we can go out on a limb here and say the OP is pretty close. It's opportunists like this that give our industry a bad name. It's also clueless buyers that are as much at fault for not performing proper due diligence B4hand. Bob should have never tried to off such a rust bucket. I could see it if it was a specimen from a non inclement weather part of the country and then put all the effort in to it to turn it into a prime unit but, the 178K miles should keep the price South of $10K in any instance. But, *** do I know, eh? Later!
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Old July 21st, 2008, 15:10   #4
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They advertise cars on CL all the time, with pictures. Something about their postings has never felt quite "right", so I haven't considered any of their offerings. Maybe it's how many they manage to come up with that seems a bit fishy. The enthusiasm can certainly get the better of someone looking to buy their first TDI, I know from experience. That's one big reason I ask so many questions about TDI's that I'm considering. You all keep my perspective on the whole treasure hunt.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 16:11   #5
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The ads do sound mighty inviting!
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Old July 21st, 2008, 16:13   #6
owr084
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Sounds like you bought the car discussed here http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...ight=Nice+cars
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Old July 21st, 2008, 19:47   #7
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This is sent to provide information regarding Leon Slater from Montana who has forwarding false information regarding dealings with Nice Cars Company in Bellingham Washington. The truth of the matter is that Leon Slater actually stole a car from us and attempting to extort $200 from us to get it back.

This is what happened. Leon emailed us wanting to trade his Jetta in on one of our B4V wagons. I told him I wasn’t interested in his Jetta but there was a dealer there in Montana that might buy it. That dealer bought his car. That dealer had a problem getting a title from Leon but that’s another story.

Leon became aware that I had purchased a car from that Montana dealer. He offered to drive that car over here, I agreed. Leon got here and looked at the car that I described. I can say that each and every part that we said was upgraded on that car, was in fact done. That wagon is sold, but still here waiting to get picked up. If anybody wants to come and see it, it’s available for viewing. It’s a never wrecked, clean title car. This car has all original floor pans, quarter panels, fenders etc. No patch panels. The inside of the spare tire compartment has all original paint. The spare tire has never been used. All the VW tools are there.

Leon took out the spare and noticed where the tire had rubbed the paint off in a couple places. He said, “Oh look here, lots of rust”. Leon is the type of person who tries to get the price lowered on a car by finding “faults” in the car. As soon as he found the “rust” he said that it wasn’t worth our asking price. I told Leon that its ok with me if he didn’t want the car. Leon is clearly telling a lie when he said I started yelling at him. I did tell him that I wasn’t going to get into an argument with him and that I wasn’t going to try and talk him into buy the car so I walked away from him.

Leon followed me inside our shop and said he wanted to talk about the car. I told Leon and his wife that it was ok with me if they didn’t want it. Leon said that he would be interested but not at that price. I told him that I didn’t want to enter into any negotiations about the price. Then Leon said that he wanted to drive it. I said, “why would you want to drive a car you don’t want to buy.” He said he wanted to see what he would be missing. I told him that it would be a waste of everybody’s time for him to drive a car that he clearly said “he would never buy”. He persisted his request to drive so I said ok. He was gone over an hour. I asked him how it ran and drove. He said it was mechanically quite good and everything worked ok but he still didn’t want it. Again, I said ok you don’t have to buy it.

When Leon was outside looking at other cars his wife told me they really couldn’t afford what these sell for. Leon came in and said he didn’t want to buy anything here. He then asked what plans I had to get him back to Montana. I told him that I hadn’t made any plans and there are several options available but I wasn’t the one to make that decision. Then Leon and his wife sat out in my car (the car they had driven from Montana) and had a good long private talk. This is when they cooked up the scam to drive my car back to Montana.

Leon came in and asked about another B4v we had, we actually had five 96 Passat TDI Wagons here that day. I told him the car he picked out wasn’t for sale as it had just arrived and that it didn’t have any of our upgrades/restoration work done yet. He said he wanted to buy it as-is and we told him it wasn’t available in that condition. He was told it would be available only with all the upgrades and restoration work we do. He asked how long that would take. I told him if I got all five guys in the shop on it, we could have it done in 24 hours. He said that would work as he liked the car being that it was a California car with all original paint. He said he would like to buy the car with all the upgrades the following day. He asked where he could find a motel with a pool. We told him about the Holiday Inn just down the street a bit. Our office manager helped Leon get reservations. Then Leon asked if he could drive my car (the one he drove over from Montana) to the hotel. I said ok.

Then I got the guys together and said I wanted everybody’s efforts directed towards that California car. Since we specialize in B4V we had all the new parts here. Belts, hoses, filters, water pump, brakes, bearings, door handles, window risers, drive axles, new windshield, battery etc. The interior tech and our body detail man started to work. The interior was removed for cleaning. The body was color sanded buffed then waxed. Leon agreed that there were only three little dings in the original paint. We took the door panels off and massaged those dings away. We installed new window risers and door handles. These are commonly weak, ill designed so we replace with new. The interior was cleaned and reinstalled. We installed a new windshield, new headlights, new GLX-VR6 front bumper lights, new turn signal assemblies, and new Passat TDI chrome emblems. The guys worked until 2 am then back again at 6:30 am to finish up.

At around 10 am I get a call from Scott Edgerton,. The Montana dealer that I bought the car from the Leon drove over. Scott tells me he’s been asked to be a mediator to resolve the differences between me and Leon. I said, “what differences, Leon is waiting in a motel down the street for us to prepare a TDI wagon for him”. Scott says no, that’s not what’s going on. Scott says that Leon decided yesterday that he didn’t want to buy anything from us and that Leon was in fact NOT at the holiday inn in town here but was in fact in Bellevue just east of Seattle (about 125 miles away). I said, “are you sure of that?” Scott said he had just spoken to Leon and he was planning on driving my VW wagon back to Montana.

I called Leon and asked him what was going on and where he was. He said he decided to buy the car he was driving (the one he drove over from Montana) and said he would send me some money for it when he got back to Montana. I told Leon that car he was driving was not for sale and that I didn’t appreciate him driving it 125 miles away and I asked him to bring it back. He told me that I might as well sell it to him because he was driving it to Montana “one way or the other”. I repeated my position that he could not drive my car to Montana. He refused to bring my car back because he said I didn’t have any paper work and that I couldn’t prove it was my car. I told him that I paid for it a week ago and that it was in fact mine. He told me he was going to Montana and then hung up on me.

I called Scott back and told him what Leon said. Scott called Leon and told him he couldn’t drive the car. Scott told me Leon would leave the car in Bellevue if I paid him 200 dollars. So what we have now is Leon stealing my car, and then trying extortion for me to get my car back. Yes, I told Scott I’d give him 200 dollars if he left my car in Bellevue (Seattle). Scott told me Leon agreed to that. I was going to call the state police and report it stolen but I figured I’d go down and try and get it back without having Leon arrested for auto theft.

I went to Bellevue (2 hours each way during rush hour). I met Leon at a motel and he gave me my car. He handed me that keys and asked for the 200 dollars. I told him I wasn’t doing to give him 2 cents. I said you drive my car away and cause me to make a 250 mile round to get it back and you want my to pay you money? I told Leon and his wife they should consider themselves lucky I didn’t have them arrested for auto theft and extortion. Leon’s wife started crying and said they felt like they had no choice but to make up a story about wanting a car just so they could leave the lot with my car. I was glad to get my car back with out involving the authorities but I most certainly would have if he had continued on his trip back to Montana.

We’ve noticed some responses to Leon’s accusations about “all these B4V;s Tdis that we seem to continually seem to have around here”. We have in fact sold 64 original B4V TDIS. These were not conversions, original factory cars. In addition to that, we’ve sold three conversions which the owners knew every detail of the conversion. Our customers seem to pay the price we get based on the high quality work and the massive amount of upgrades included in each of these wagons. We have helped more than one TDI club member get thousands more for their totaled B4 or B4V by showing the insurance adjuster 10-12 copies of recent bills of sale showing the wagons we sold for $12,000–$18,000.

We spend 50-60 hours a week in our attempts at finding these rare wagons. We pay finders fees and pay top dollar when we buy (we’ve paid up to $16,000 – we just offered $20,000 for one we found with 27,000 original miles). We believe these B4 and B4Vs are the highest quality TDIS ever made which is why we choose to specialize in them, just our opinion for whatever its worth. Because of our specialty, we now have B4V owners bringing their cars here for upgrades/restoration work. Anybody is invited to come here, look at these cars, walk through our shop and see what we do. We’ve been here a long time, sold over 2300 Volkswagens and are proud of what we do.

NCC

Last edited by BKmetz; July 31st, 2008 at 08:11.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 20:06   #8
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WOW!!! Talk about two sides of a story. That's one hell of a post.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 20:25   #9
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Whew!!! I'm tired after reading all that. My gut feeling goes in the favor of Nice Cars- isn't the human condition interesting??? I have no connection- unless they want to buy my B4V for some crazy amount And BTW, thanks Harv for warning us about the opportunist tdi dealers out there...

Might be time to put on a pot of coffee...
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Last edited by Shastapk; July 21st, 2008 at 20:29.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 20:52   #10
Bio-D
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There are so many lies in Bob's reply, I don't know where to begin. He has erroniously stated so many things in this post - this is incredible.
All I can say is this:
1. I was nieve to believe anything this man said.
2. I had my wife and kids with me. I would NEVER knowingly put them into a situation like this.
3. I had arranged to wire money from our bank account as soon as I had inspected the vehicle. My wife would like to clarify that she said "we can't afford to fix all the stuff that is wrong with this car". The other stuff that she supposedly said - again, complete falsehood.
4. I am returning a hitch to ehitch that I had ordered for the 96 Passat.
5. I fully intended to purchase a "restored" Passat. This vehicle had a rust HOLE that had been painted over (if I would have been prepared I could have taken a picture of the passengers side front fender with my finger sticking thru it, along with the rusty seams on the under-side of the car).
6. Bob did send me pictures and the pictures looked great. The car really does look nice until you start really looking. Rust had been painted over - enough said.
7. Bob received a delivery from Missoula to Seattle for free. He accused me of stealing after I had returned to Seattle to take advantage of a free night at a friends house. NO ONE MADE ANY RESERVATIONS FOR US - his office assistant looked up a number of a Holiday Inn. I did not ask for $200 in exchange for his car. I gave him the paperwork and the keys immediately and then asked him to reimburse our expenses for the one-way rental car back to Missoula.
8. I continued to try and talk myself into going thru with the purchase - hence the drive and the looking at another wagon. Honestly, I was searching for options - nothing else.
9. I tried to call Bob on Wednesday night after we had decided to not trust him on the "California" car (at 9:28 PM). I called Bob every 15 minutes starting at 8:30 AM the next morning - I do have the phone records to prove that. No one answered the phone until I left a message stating that we would be heading to Missoula at 12 Noon if I had not heard from him. Bob called at 11:54 AM.
10. It is not in my nature to yell at people (I am a teacher with years of experience in holding my temper in check). I could not believe I was in this situation. I did ask Bob to stop yelling on two different occasions. He hung up on me twice.
11. I know this is my word against Bob's but the fact is - I do not want anything to do with Nice Car Company - I am not looking to gain anything. Simply - BUYER BEWARE


And finally in the words of a great man:
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." --Albert Einstein
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Old July 21st, 2008, 21:25   #11
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OK- Someone go look at this car and put this to rest.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 10:09   #12
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pictures pictures
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 10:36   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle1963
pictures pictures
Pictures don't do squat for confirming overall condition. I'm glad I put in a tick regarding not hearing Bob's side of the story because now the only way to rectify this would be a touchy feely confirmation of the said vehicle. I'm struggling whether it's even worth the energy because performing the proper due diligence in the first place as I have specified here for years now could have prevented this from ever happening. But, *** do I know, eh? Later!
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 11:16   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvieux
Pictures don't do squat for confirming overall condition.
Pictures would help prove your point though. Here are the pictures he sent me, here are my pictures of the car!

No he said she said then.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 12:20   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airwolf
Pictures would help prove your point though. Here are the pictures he sent me, here are my pictures of the car!

No he said she said then.
Yea, I agree with that but, I was referring to pictures provided by the seller as having any bearing of overall condition before gallivanting off to Tim-Buc-Tooh. Later!
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