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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old June 11th, 2008, 18:25   #1
dan30thz28
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Default Hypermiling...anyone tried it?

Hello,
Has anyone tried it? Let me know your results, and if you really think it's worth it. Thanks, and I look forward to your responses.

Sincerely,
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Old June 11th, 2008, 18:51   #2
hitman
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I read an article in the Birmingham news the other day about it. The thought of pushing your car out of the driveway is a little to hardcore/extreme for me. If you try hypermiling, let us know about your progress.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 20:24   #3
turborabbitgti
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i have tried doing that in my gti, i wouldnt consider it hypermiling but just more efficient way of driving. sometimes i would turn off my car about a mile away from home and time it perfectly so that i would roll into my driveway, other times i would use the brake to stop cuz i went to fast. when going to school i would always go to the spot closest to the entrance/exit, so i wouldnt waste .2 miles heading uphill for a better parking spot. i coast to stops when i know a red light will stay red for awhile, and yea theres more but just drive effieciently and you will be fine. by doing this i experienced an average 6-8 mpg gain
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Old June 11th, 2008, 21:10   #4
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Not to be a jerk but turning off your engine while driving is illegal in most places and down right dangerous. Brakes and power steering don't work well with no assist.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 22:54   #5
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/06/03/b...ef=mpstoryview
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Old June 11th, 2008, 23:15   #6
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The steering only locks if you remove the key and if you are that stupid don't try it . IF you try this a quick off & on of the key is all that is required and all will still work turn signals and anything else tied to the key being in the on position .

And on PS & PB , PS is 99 % disengaged above parking lot speeds and the PB run off of vacuum so plenty is in the reservoir . If this was really illegal then hybrids wouldn't be allowed on the roads . Because this is exactly how they improve mpgs , by turning engine on & off .

I've been using a rolling start , using gravity for years and it really does make a difference in over all mpgs by avoiding the cold start of the day .
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Old June 12th, 2008, 00:12   #7
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I tried coasting in gear as much as possible and slowing down on the highway to about 63... made a big difference.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 05:46   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid
And on PS & PB , PS is 99 % disengaged above parking lot speeds...
I strongly disagree... with the engine off, the steering is VERY HEAVY... not at all like steering a car with manual steering, and most definitely not the same as when your car is running and you're driving above parking lot speed. (This is my experience from trying it out in both my MkIV Jetta 5sp, and my B5 W8 6sp.)

Try it in a vacant lot... even over 40 mph, the effect is dramatic. In an emergency maneuver, I've no doubt that the car will not behave in the manner that the driver both expects and requires - it simply will not respond as quickly.

As to legality... hybrids do it so it must be OK? I don't follow that logic... Hybrids are engineered to operate in respect of all other rules of the road, even when the ICE is shut down (electric power steering, for example). It's simply not the same thing. In many States, just coasting in neutral is illegal, let alone actually shutting off the engine.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3361

As to my own hypermiling techniques... the most important thing happens before you even get in the car - Route Planning. Choose the optimal route for your combination of priorities (fuel efficiency, travel time & distance, accessibility... whatever). Consider traffic volume (esp at various times of day), speed limits, road topography, construction, etc. Plan ahead and link trips together. I never "go grocery shopping", I always "stop at the store on the way home".

In the car, the most significant factor is observation - really pay attention to how (and why) you're using the right pedal, and evaluate every opportunity to see if you really need to be on the gas, or if you could just coast for those 100' or whatever instead.

Some specific things:
- if you know the light is changing to red, get off the gas immediately and coast in gear as much as possible... brake early if you can, and try to keep the vehicle rolling until the light changes.
- similar for stop signs... if there is a line of cars ahead of you, slow down further back so you can time it that you just roll to the line and don't have to stop-and-go as each car proceeds through.
- ease off the gas on downhills; you won't lose much (if any) speed, and if you get back on the gas while you've still got momentum from the hill ends, you'll get back to cruising speed with little effort
- slow down;

I've only become really disciplined with these things in the last couple of months, and I've seen a measurable benefit (~4 to 5mpg). If you want extreme numbers, you have to do extreme behaviour... something I'm not prepared to do, principally for the gross inconvenience to myself, but also to others on the road.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 07:31   #9
Hot Georgia
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I drove form 1976 to 2004 with extremely heavy foot. A Left lane driver who'd practically gas & brake at the same time, a traffic swerving tailgater and the car ahead just wasn't fast enough.

After all, faster you go, the sooner you arrive so it's a wash- Right??
Ignorance is truly bliss.

Then we moved out into a rural area, and 16MPG in a wore out 4cyl Dodge Spirit with gas over $1.25, I had to find a more economical way.

So I bought an efficient car and immediately found a new interest in saving gas money. My goal have always been #1 Safety #2 Courtesy #3 Efficiency.

Hypermiling have completely replaced my habits of old- I don't really think too much about it anymore- it's just became the way I drive.

I'm getting better than 60MPG in a car which EPA rates at 47, and can't believe the money I've wasted all the past years in wasteful habits.

We also have a 2001 Grand Caravan V6 with EPA at 24MPG, It did better than 30MPG with only basic techniques. (But my wife thinks nothing of economy so it's back to about 20)

Compared to the way I used to drive, might as well just flip a quarter out the window every single mile.

BTW
Hypermiling doesn't mandate that you drive engine-off or do any extreme things. People are free to drive as wasteful as they want, it's up to them and none of my own business.
But some of the wasteful folks come up with all kinds of excuses why they drive the way they do: Some say it's discourtious to other drivers (Not so if done properly), some say it cost a lot of time (Only a couple minutes) and others say it's just dangerous.

If one desires to learn more efficient driving it's only an improvement, and hats off to those who make an effort.

-Steve
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Last edited by Hot Georgia; June 12th, 2008 at 07:39.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 07:51   #10
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Back in the 70s and 80s everyone used some techniques of hypermiling....you know driving the speed limit instead of 85mph in rush hour...... What that saves gas???? Someone needs to tell me these things, Im joe america and have tunnel vision towards life.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 07:56   #11
Hot Georgia
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I should clarify that I do use some advance techniques in my own car such as engine off, but also my vehicle's PS is electronically assisted so it still works. I may not do that otherwise.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 07:58   #12
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The BMW 118d i drove in germany shut itself off at stops if the wheels were not moving and the clutch was out......they hypermile for you....must be nice to live in an advanced automotive society.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 08:03   #13
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It's all about mpg isn't it? Of course it is! That's why I and several other people joined this community of tdi lovers. To find ways to save fuel. I use a few of the hypermiling techniques myself. But Driving with windows up and no ac in the south is too extreme for me. I'd pass out behind the wheel at some point. But if someone wants to try this, so be it. To each his own.

Last edited by hitman; June 17th, 2008 at 17:08.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 08:23   #14
rotarykid
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If you have to make very sharp turns coming up leave the engine on then . But if you are on a long straight stretch then very little steering input is required .

I have to disagree about the A4 Jetta , I drive one regularly and there is no steering assist going down the road on a straight stretch .

On German cars like my VWs A2s & A4 and B4 TDIs we have variable assist to steering , when you don't need it it's not there saving energy strain on the engine .

On the current electric steering assist I don't have enough experience with to say yet . On the ones that I drive regularly you have maybe 1% power assist to steering by design at speed going down the road , negligible on or off .

If you are in something that has extreme assist always like many domestic cars , which I wouldn't be driving because you can't feel the road then doing this might not be a good idea . But in the cars I drive the difference on & off to the steering is almost unmeasurable . I drove non-assisted steering A1 & A2 Rabbits & Jettas diesels for years so it's a no biggie to do this . The rack & Pinion steering system VW has been using for years is a very good system that requires very little assist even stopped .

Hybrids use the same system but controlled by a box under the hood where my system is controlled by my brain . I'll take my brain to the box under the hood any day . There is nothing it does that I can't do in a more efficient way to deal all specific situations and in a safe manner .

I've got close to 30 years of experience driving for max mpgs safely over 3,000,000 miles so I always achieve higher mpgs running around in city traffic at lower speeds . All the cars I've owned over the years weren't necessarily the most efficient but I drove them in a manor to push my mpgs most of the time above 30 mpgUS even on my rotary engine stuff .


If you aren't comfortable driving like this don't . But to many of this is just , not more than a tweak of what we all already do in everyday driving of a manual trans can no more . During normal operating conditions in a manual trans vehicle you spend at least 30 % of your time in "N" anyway while driving around . All the above is doing is just using a few techniques to increase mpgs by as much as 20-25% while doing what you are already doing .

If all want to do is just drive without you having any input in how the car functions just get an automatic and shut up about your lousy mpgs , sorry but I just don't see the use of having an automatic anything .

If automatics were all there were I think I would walk . I drive a stick because I love to drive having control over what happens when . Been doing it so long it takes no effort , it's automatic for me to shift my gears for what's going on around me . Plus after all my years of teaching drivers to row their own gears I'm convinced knowing how to row your own gears makes you a more attentive and safer driver . Every automatic only driver I've ever met had little if any clue about how clueless they really were to driving conditions around them . Once they learned to row their own gears they were all amazed that they hadn't killed themselves before . Even if they didn't drive a stick after they learned they were never that clueless again .

To me at least driving an automatic is such a boring operation that leads to inattention to driving conditions in even the best of drivers and I want nothing to do with it . Not to mention the hit in mpgs that are a given .

Not gonna do it , wouldn't be prudent ...........................

And I use the ac when I need it as in our TDIs if you drive for max mpgs it makes almost no differnece . In the south from April to October it is a must .
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Last edited by rotarykid; June 12th, 2008 at 08:29.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 08:28   #15
ruking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30thz28
Hello,
Has anyone tried it? Let me know your results, and if you really think it's worth it. Thanks, and I look forward to your responses.

Sincerely,
To me it is a series of scenarios game! The mpg is really the scorecard.

One type (situation) scenario that still amazes me: how one can drive 584 miles in 6.25 hours of travel time, take on 12.1 gals of fuel for 48.26 mpg!!!

Another due to 3 state roving bands of Highway Patrol 5 car wolf packs (primed for instant and multiple "customer service" stops ), going 75 mpg with bursts to 80 mph, getting 59 mpg!

Another was driving 300 miles of stop and go driving (mostly stop) in downtown Las Vegas, filling for 44 mpg (one of the worst tanks).

I actually would be wary of driving 55 mph and less for long distances, as road hypnosis would probably set in and I could run off the road, hit a bridge, hit a tree, etc. That would definitely ruin my day!! However I would have gotten (swag) 60-65 mpg!!?? I have actually done this breaking in Z06 tires (100 miles round trip), where the fast lane speeds approached 85-90 mph. Once you get used to being passed by literally thousands of cars, it is an interesting study in being in a weird cocoon.

Last edited by ruking; June 12th, 2008 at 08:53.
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