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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old May 30th, 2008, 18:55   #1
Bob_Fout
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Default CJ-4 oil data and discussion repository

In light of two more big boys in the world of lubricants coming out with synthetic 5w40 CJ-4 oils, time to aggregate data and links to other info (like UOAs).

Thread purpose: Be THE repository for CJ-4 oil data and discussion as it applies to TDIs. Be the one thread for folks pondering/thinking about/confused/curious or just nosy about CJ-4.

Here's the data I've collected so far:


Discuss!
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Last edited by Bob_Fout; January 29th, 2009 at 15:23.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 19:38   #2
wjdell
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CJ4 SYNTHETIC OILS ONLY

Amsoil DEO 5W40

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/deo.aspx

Amsoil DME 15W40
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/dme.aspx

Chevron DELO 400 LE 5W40
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/genera...DS31745219.PDF

ConocoPhillips Triton ECT 5w40
http://www.conocophillipslubricants....0TDS%20Web.pdf

Esso XD3 Extra 0W30 - 0W40
http://www.esso.ca/Canada-English/Fi...Xd-3_extra.pdf

Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5W40

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub..._ESP_5W-40.asp

Mobil 1 TDT 5W40
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...ruck_5W-40.asp

PC DURON E Synthetic 0W40
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/603.aspx

Schaeffer S9000 5W40
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
VOA - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=223637

Shell Rotella T6 5W40
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...t6_detail.html

Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W40

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...sp?product=103

Last edited by wjdell; May 25th, 2010 at 20:18. Reason: addition
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Old May 30th, 2008, 19:44   #3
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I have used Delvac since 98. Not sure what kind of data you are looking for, but I have to date had zero oil related problems.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 20:13   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POWERSTROKE
I have used Delvac since 98. Not sure what kind of data you are looking for, but I have to date had zero oil related problems.
The Delvac you used probably isn't CJ-4
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Old May 31st, 2008, 18:19   #5
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API CJ-4 reference for those who care.

http://eolcs.api.org/
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Old June 1st, 2008, 14:09   #6
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Default CJ-4 Tech Info...

...from the folks that make the additive packages for most of the subject oils.

http://www.lubrizol.com/CJ-4/default.asp

http://www.lubrizol.com/CJ-4/faq.asp

CJ-4 Specification — Protection. Simplicity. Proven Performance.

Frequently Asked Questions

Who developed CJ-4?

API CJ-4 was developed on behalf of the American Petroleum Institute (API) by the Heavy-Duty Engine Oil Classification Panel of ASTM International, one of the world’s largest voluntary standards-development organizations. The panel included representatives of engine manufacturers, oil companies and additive suppliers.
Why is API CJ-4 required?

It is driven by the EPA’s On-Highway 2007 Exhaust Emissions Standards that require major reductions in nitrogen oxide (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) for 2007 model year trucks.
When does CJ-4 go into effect?

The ASTM Heavy-Duty Engine Oil Classification Panel approved the standard in January 2006. API is expected to license CJ-4 products by October 2006. This timing coincides with the legislated introduction of ULSD (ultra low sulfur diesel – 15 ppm maximum) for the on-highway market, as well as the early production of EPA 2007-compliant engine hardware outfitted with exhaust aftertreatment technology.
How does API CJ-4 differ from API CI-4 and CI-4 Plus?

Performance tests for API CJ-4 are a combination of existing CI-4-Plus, CI-4 and CH-4 engine tests using today’s fuel (500 PPM S) as well as new engine tests using ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD = 15 PPM) that is mandated for on-road use. API CJ-4 represents a major performance upgrade over CI-4 Plus in terms of emissions control system durability as well as additional protection in terms of valve train wear, piston deposit control and soot handling capabilities over the previous categories. It also improves oil consumption characteristics and protection against bearing corrosion. Maximum chemical limits on sulfated ash (SA), Phosphorus (P) and Sulfur (S) for API CJ-4 lubricants have been set to address the emissions system compatibility and durability.
Are CJ-4 oils backward compatible?

Backward compatibility was a CJ-4 design requirement. This criteria was met, and it will be stated in the API user language.
When will the new formulations be on the market?

API is expected to license CJ-4 products by October 2006, and the products will be on the market soon after that.
What are the chemical limits for API CJ-4 and how do they compare to the previous API categories?

CJ-4 lubricants will need to be formulated to be less than 1.0% ash, 0.4% sulfur, and 0.12% phosphorus. These restrictions enable the use of exhaust aftertreatment devices such as diesel particulate filters (DPFs) and diesel oxidation catalysts (DOCs) that can be negatively affected by chemicals found in the lubricating oil. The following table illustrates the differences between CJ-4 and CI-4 typical lubes.
API CJ-4 Limits API CI-4 ASH1.0%1.2 ~ 1.5% S0.4%No Limit P0.12%0.14%Volatility13%15%What are the implications of formulating CJ-4 oils with the new chemical restrictions?

Sulfur limit of 0.4% minimizes the possibility to use higher sulfur Group I stocks. Reduction in sulfated ash directly reduces allowable detergent TBN levels that may affect marketing claims and potentially reduced oil drain intervals, assuming all other factors remain the same.
If a fleet includes both 2007 vehicles and older vehicles, will both CJ-4 and CI-4/CI-4 PLUS oils need to be stocked?

Although fleet operators may choose to stock both oils, the expected backward compatibility of CJ-4 allows its use in older vehicles as well as 2007 vehicles. However, it is recommended that the oil analysis be closely monitored and the appropriate maintenance schedule be maintained based on lubricant quality.
What are the main engine tests for API CJ-4?

Engine Test Measured Parameters Fuel Sulfur ContentComments500PPM15PPMCAT C-13 Oil consumption and piston depsoit control, iron piston. XNew test, with closed crankcase ventiliation CAT 1P Oil consumption and piston deposit control, iron piston. X Steel piston, depends C13 matrix results CAT 1N Oil consumption and piston deposit control, aluminum piston. X Al piston (DDC, JD, Nav), depends C13 matrix results Cummins ISM HT sludge, soot-related wear, filter plug X Replaces M11 EGR Cummins ISBValve train wear XNew test Mack T-11 Soot-related viscosity control X Replace T8-e Mack T-12 Ring/linear wear, bearing corrosion XNew test GMRFWTSoot-related wear X Status quo Navistar 7.3 L AerationX Status quo How does Lubrizol foresee the U.S. market transitioning to API CJ-4?

Lubrizol forecasts a fairly slow transition as this category is a function of a new requirement for engines starting from zero on January 1, 2007. Industry experts forecast 2007 Class 8 sales to be app. 220,000 units. This will be a very small percentage of the licensed vehicle market, which may result in an overall slower transition.
How long will it be before CI-4/CI-4 PLUS oils are phased out?

It is currently anticipated that CI-4/CI-4 PLUS products will remain on the market until at least 2010.
What will happen if CI-4/CI-4 PLUS oil is used in an EPA 2007-compliant engine?

Because these oils contain higher levels of sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur (SAPS), they may cause increased plugging problems in the diesel particulate filters and reduce their efficiency, possibly resulting in engine damage and voiding the manufacturer’s warranty. It is strongly recommended that the manufacturer’s recommendation to use CJ-4 oils in EPA 2007-compliant engines be followed.
Does CJ-4 apply to off-highway vehicles?

No. The standard applies only to lubricants used in on-highway vehicles beginning with model year 2007.
What can our customers expect by adopting Lubrizol’s API CJ-4 technology?

Protection, Simplicity and Proven Performance
Protection – dialed in soot and wear performance provides needed protection as proven by extensive engine and field testing showing excellent performance in terms of backward compatibility.
Simplicity – by maximizing the flexibility for forward and backward compatibility with linkage to a core DI and single OCP VM.
Proven Performance – since the technology is built upon LZ4998 technology with over a billion miles of field testing of PC-10 technology, as well as global OEM coverage.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 23:16   #7
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Just did the boss's first change on his new ('08) 6.4L Powerstroke. We had to send a case of oil back to the parts guys when they sent CI-4 in stead of CJ-4. I suppose it will take a while for people to realize there is a difference. Anyone know anything about Motocraft's SuperDuty 15w40? (Obviously it is the wrong viscocity and won't be 507.00 approved... though it does seem that there is a 10w30 and 10w40 based on results from OilGuy's link) Sounds like CJ-4 oils will mostly be "true synthetics" (group IV?), is that true? It's not on wjdell's list, just because it doesn't look like it will be TDI-ready or some other reason?
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Old June 10th, 2008, 23:21   #8
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you found a group IV 15W40 CJ4 - that would be a first - send me a link and I will add it to the list
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~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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Old June 10th, 2008, 23:31   #9
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Sorry, that's what I am asking. Is the SuperDuty oil group IV?
This is what I get from http://www.motorcraft.com/products.do?item=15

SAE 15W-40 Super Duty Diesel Motor Oil

- Versatile for all-season performance to temperatures as low as 20 degrees Fahrenheit (-7 degrees Celsius)
- Meets API Performance Category CJ-4/SM
- Low ash formulation designed for conventional and turbocharged diesel engines using ultralow sulfur diesel fuel
- Minimizes foaming
- Fights sludge, varnish, rust, corrosion and wear
- Recommended for use in 7.3L/6.0L/6.4L Power Stroke® diesel engines
- Suitable for powershift applications requiring Allison C-4 fluid

I suspect there are plenty of reasons you wouldn't want this in a TDI, but until we find out more, I wouldn't want to say.

Edit: I should have read the whole page first. From page linked above: Motorcraft® oils are made with the finest base oils and refined using a revolutionary process known as "hydrocracking". I get the chemistry confused but doesn't that imply it's group III?
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Last edited by HopefulFred; June 10th, 2008 at 23:35.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:14   #10
wjdell
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It does not say synthetic so I suspect that particular oil is a blend. Also if it was pure syn it would have a lower rating - not 20F.
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
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~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:44   #11
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Rotella breakdown?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...170092&fpart=1
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Old June 11th, 2008, 11:23   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldorf
From reading the thread, I believe it is regarding the 15w40 dino CJ-4 oil.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 17:42   #13
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Has anyone seen a VOA for Delvac 1 ESP? I've been lookin'... nothing at BITOG. I don't mind doing one... but if there's one already posted somewhere...
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Old June 12th, 2008, 05:54   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzski
Has anyone seen a VOA for Delvac 1 ESP? I've been lookin'... nothing at BITOG. I don't mind doing one... but if there's one already posted somewhere...
I'd thought about doing VOA of CI-4+ TDT, D1 ESP CJ-4 and CJ-4 TDT, but I've been busy, and haven't found any CJ-4 TDT yet.
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Old June 12th, 2008, 06:01   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Fout
I'd thought about doing VOA of CI-4+ TDT, D1 ESP CJ-4 and CJ-4 TDT, but I've been busy, and haven't found any CJ-4 TDT yet.
Well... I'll do the D1 ESP CJ-4, then, since I have plenty of it (bought a case-and-a-half for two changes in the W8), and I'll want the VOA results in hand when I get my first UOA back.
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