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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old April 15th, 2008, 13:23   #1
TDIMeister
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Default TDI cams revisited

First of all, do not interpret what I post below as being any kind of "advice". You need to do the homework yourself, and I won't be responsible if you go ahead and do anything that comes out of what you read.

I have maintained a database of about 80 OEM and aftermarket camshafts for 8V VWs, both gasser and Diesel, for about the last 6 years. Many of the physical dimensions between gasser- and diesel VWs are similar if not identical, and this is also true spanning over the generations of VW engines since the 1970s until today.

There's a question about whether some aftermarket gasser camshaft profiles will work in a TDI or not. Having done a lot of analysis (although admittedly no testing in hardware), I can say that they won't, at least not without significant clearancing of the piston valve pockets, and likely also the lifter bosses. Even if you were able to get on to physically fit without interference, the engine will likely run very poorly with it.

However, several years ago, tdi rs let on from his experience of using a gasser VW 8V cam, that certain gasser cams will not only fit on the TDI, but run pretty well...

So, I'm here to propose to anyone who wants to try it... to try to get a camshaft from the A3 2.0 8V (048 109 101D). Alternatively, 050 109 101A, 026 109 101G, 026 109 101A, in roughly that order.

The secret no cam vendor will tell you is that these OEM cams have almost the same timings as cams being sold as aftermarket TDI performance upgrades. I'm not for a second saying that they are using exactly the same camshafts and simply re-packaging them; what I AM saying is that the publicly-available cam timings are, as I have analysed, very similar. If nothing else, you get a nice bonus of extra valve lift. Stock TDI is about 8.5mm; the above listed cams start at around 10mm (.393"), and go bigger from there.



Let me warn again: this is NOT a bolt-on!! It has not be tried by myself! Machining work will likely be required to the cam, cylinder head, and/or pistons!
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Old April 15th, 2008, 13:37   #2
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In the table pic above, the column In. open @ .050 gives an indication of valve overlap and the amount of clearance between the valves and piston at TDC.

Any camshaft with a non-negative value implies valve overlap. You can forget about using these cams in a TDI because a) you don't have the clearance for it; b) even if you modded the pistons to clear the valves, it will run like crap.

My own experience (...) have shown the threshold of valve/piston contact to be around -8 BTDC @ .050". Any more will require clearancing. If you're close to this threshhold, to be absolutely sure, the best thing to do is to place Plastigages over the valve relief pockets; bolt-on the cylinder heads; and turn the engine over by hand at least a few full turns. Then pull the head and inspect the result of the Plastigages.

Like I said, any cam that opens the valves earlier than 8 ATDC will need to have the piston valve reliefs machined deeper to accommodate. For a turbocharged engine, more overlap is not usually a good thing.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 13:58   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub87
AHU cam and ASV cam is not the same..
I know... this is one of the differences (note the slot widths):


Also, as a tease, a tiny part of my cam database:
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Old September 5th, 2008, 09:06   #4
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One of the problems of using the gas cam is the different fitment to the sprocket. The gas engines use a keyway while the TDI uses a tapered fitting and aligns the cam by a slot in the free-end to a reference surface (the cam cover sealing surface -- see picture in post #3 above).

One way this could be solved is by taking a junked TDI cam and cut off the tapered nose, and bore/ream a hole and shrink-fit it over the gas cam. Alternatively, one could fabricate an adapter sleeve from steel. Alignment could be achieve by cutting opposite grooves on the sprocket flange shoulder that is aligned to cam TDC (I think the key serves the purpose of alignment in the gas cams), and align these grooves to some reference surface (again, the valve cover sealing surface). If necessary, corresponding grooves could also be cut onto the sprocket as an alignment aid. Below is a picture of what I mean.



Or, you simply determine cylinder #1 cam TDC and machine a slot on the free-end so that you can align it by the usual procedure.

Also, I did some calculations and determined cam timings at 1mm lift for each of the gas cams, and I compare this to OE cams for the AAZ (1.9 IDI), AEY (1.9 SDI), 1Z/AHU and ALH/AHF. For what is probably the first time, you can see an apples-to-apples comparison of the full camshaft specs for all the above cams, plus for comparison, one of my experimental profiles for simulation (this is NOT what went to production).

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Last edited by TDIMeister; September 5th, 2008 at 11:57.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 12:17   #5
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I am in hopes to have data on the 048 101 109D ABA cam here in a few months... I could also put it into my mk3 but I rather wait. I would stress to people that some clearancing was done on my pistons but it may or may not need to be done. I did it to open things up to oem heat clearancing specs. You Might be able to put this cam in an oem car with little to no mods. My speculations are that it might run a little rough at idle and have starting issues, but it should open things up for us pushing 2-5.5k rpm ranges.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 09:15   #6
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I am reviving this thread because I'm looking for a better cam for my Golf and may not be able to wait until Q2 for something to appear. My questions:

- Will and AAZ cam fit in an ALH without modifications?
- Would this cam provide any performance improvement for an ALH?
- How does the data above look for an SDI cam? Would this cam help?

I'm focusing on cams that are inexpensive in the aftermarket, and (preferably) ones that are available now in North America. The SDI isn't available here, but I probably can get some here without much difficulty.

TIA for your thoughts. I'm porting the head and adding firmer, double valve springs. Other than that no head mods planned. If I don't find anything good I'll stick with the stock cam for now.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 11:07   #7
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Like TDIMeister said to me at one stage "just buy the Dbilas sports 260 cam and be done" its should give you all the performance benifits a cam for our tdi's can handle P&P with out any modifications having to be done.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 15:22   #8
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What about the Colombo-Bariani 260? What are the pros and cons of one of these versus the other? They look pretty similar.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 15:57   #9
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Have you got a link to the "Colombo-Bariani 260?" cam plus all spec's etc.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 16:39   #10
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http://www.colombo-bariani.com/catalogo.php?lang=eng

Here it is
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Old December 7th, 2008, 16:54   #11
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Quote...http://www.colombo-bariani.com/catalogo.php?lang=eng
Road medium 9.4 8.6 260/252 110/110 20/60-56/16 0.6/0.4 H.T.

If this is the cam/spec you were refering too then i would say that the dbilas cam would give more......and if i'm reading it correctly the lift given is 9.4mm lift and 260 d's duration inlet / and 8.6mm lift and 252 d's duration exhaust...

Dbilas cam spec's is 9.9mm and 260 duration inlet/exhaust
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Old December 8th, 2008, 11:15   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon
I am reviving this thread because I'm looking for a better cam for my Golf and may not be able to wait until Q2 for something to appear. My questions:

- Will and AAZ cam fit in an ALH without modifications?
- Would this cam provide any performance improvement for an ALH?
- How does the data above look for an SDI cam? Would this cam help?

I'm focusing on cams that are inexpensive in the aftermarket, and (preferably) ones that are available now in North America. The SDI isn't available here, but I probably can get some here without much difficulty.

TIA for your thoughts. I'm porting the head and adding firmer, double valve springs. Other than that no head mods planned. If I don't find anything good I'll stick with the stock cam for now.


So IndigoBlueWagon which one of the 2 cams are you more persuaded to go with now you've been in formed of which is best!!
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Old December 8th, 2008, 11:53   #13
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how's your cam going mojo?.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 12:08   #14
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Don't know. I might try something else entirely. It partly depends on price/availability. Are the dbilas cams available?
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Old December 8th, 2008, 12:17   #15
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for me they were
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