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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old March 21st, 2008, 13:57   #1
TriDubInventory
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Default VW motor has kill switch after crash?

I have a relative that is an insurance adjustor, and she was asking me a question about the VW's. She stated that she has a client that is saying that VW has a engine kill switch after a accident, to prevent engine fires.

So she was asking me if I had heard of that in my Jetta. This is the first that I had heard of something like that, and wasn't even sure if that was truth. But according to this person she was tallking to, she stated that all newer VW's have these. The VW in question is a 2005 Jetta, and not sure what type of motor they have, but I did ask.

Truth, or wool over the eyes?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 03:56   #2
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Diesel or gas ?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 04:22   #3
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I don't know of any Ford style fuel pump switch. Perhaps when the airbag computer sends an airbag deployment one of the things that happens (along with the doors unlocking) is the engine shutting off? I'm 99% sure my 99.5 does not have this feature, and am 100% sure the A3/B4 cars do not.

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Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:17   #4
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If they do, it would have to be prominently mentioned in the manual. I know it was for my 86 T-Bird. But, I don't recall seeing it in any of the manuals for my current vehicles...
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:00   #5
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The fuel sending unit in the tank on the VE systems has the crude roll-over/shut off valve, I believe. I don't think it's meant to shut off the engine (oil starvation will take care of that soon enough) but to keep fuel from leaking out of severed lines into crash area when inverted. Perhaps the PDs with the electric lift pump have a impact shut off, but never heard of such.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:04   #6
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My son flipped my old 98 Jetta TDI end over end, the car landed on its passenger side when it finally came to a stop. As he was climbing out the drivers window, he told me that he stopped and had to go back in to shut the key off, because the engine was running and the front wheels were still turning. He faired really well in this accident, his only injury was a VW logo branded into his arm when the air bag deployed. Well, it was dark green and ended up in some pines about a 10th of a mile from our home. No one could see the accident because it was night time on a county road. A friend of mine helped us tow it home on a chain after we put it back on its wheels. Never reported it to the insurance. Sold it for parts on the TDI Club.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:32   #7
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Most modern cars, including Volkswagens, have this feature. That is why the SRS module is tied into the CAN system; to tell the other modules the air bags have gone off. So, the engine ECU can shut the engine off, the CCM can unlock the doors, etc.

On pre-CAN A4 cars, I am pretty sure if you follow the path of the wiring for the main ECU relay (relay 109) the SRS module has the ability to de-energize that directly...no CAN bus communications on those.

On most all gas powered VAG cars, the SRS module has the ability to de-energize the electric fuel pump relay directly. The PD TDIs may be the same, I am not sure.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:45   #8
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Couldn't you try an output test of the airbag computer to find out?

-Jason
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2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 114,000 miles. LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs. Bought back by VW.
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles. Sold to Matt98AHU w/ flat camshafts.
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.
Thank you for giving me the BUG*PWR award. It means a lot to me!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 10:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriDubInventory
I have a relative that is an insurance adjustor, and she was asking me a question about the VW's. She stated that she has a client that is saying that VW has a engine kill switch after a accident, to prevent engine fires.

So she was asking me if I had heard of that in my Jetta. This is the first that I had heard of something like that, and wasn't even sure if that was truth. But according to this person she was tallking to, she stated that all newer VW's have these. The VW in question is a 2005 Jetta, and not sure what type of motor they have, but I did ask.

Truth, or wool over the eyes?
ALL fuel injected gas engined vehicles REGARDLESS of brand, have a federally mandated inertia switch to prevent fuel from being pumped at an accident scene after broken lines. The conventional diesel engines fuel pump is mechanically driven and is inherintly safe. The PD engine's electric lift pump must also have an inertia switch built in to it's circuit.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:06   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concours
ALL fuel injected gas engined vehicles REGARDLESS of brand, have a federally mandated inertia switch to prevent fuel from being pumped at an accident scene after broken lines. The conventional diesel engines fuel pump is mechanically driven and is inherintly safe. The PD engine's electric lift pump must also have an inertia switch built in to it's circuit.
Why didn't the 98 TDI shut down after multiple flipping?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:08   #11
compu_85
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Like I said.. because the airbags are not linked to the ECU on the A3 cars.

I saw a youtube video of some wackos abusing a (what I assume was a 2.0) A3, they hit a jump, and the airbags went off when they landed, but they just kept on driving.

-J
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2014 Cadillac ELR. 38,000 miles.
2013 Fiat 500e. 32,000 miles.
1991 Mercedes 350SDL 230,000 miles, 70,000 on engine. 18/27 MPG.
Past:
99.5 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 323,000 miles. Power Memory Seats, HIDs 11mm pump, BV39 Turbo, RCIII 36/47 MPG. Sold to JDSwann's Brother.
2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 114,000 miles. LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs. Bought back by VW.
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles. Sold to Matt98AHU w/ flat camshafts.
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.
Thank you for giving me the BUG*PWR award. It means a lot to me!

Check out the official TDIClub Chat Room!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 17:42   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMan
My son flipped my old 98 Jetta TDI end over end, the car landed on its passenger side when it finally came to a stop. (snip)
__. My '02 Jetta sedan rolled "side to side", slid down the ditch (the policeman measure a little over 60 feet that its roof made a mark down the ditch, then dug in and flipped end over end. The side air bags were in place before the driver's outside mirror tried to come in the window and hit me in the head (it didn't) and before we were upside down sliding down the ditch (I remember thinking, "am I better off holding on the the steering wheel to keep from hitting my head or should I let go with one hand and put my forearm between my head and the roof of the car ... and it this a towel wrapped around my head? Where did this come from. Oh, if I can come through this without hitting my head, I *might* be OK."

__. After it flipped end over end, it landed on it's wheels. The engine was still running. I switched it off - I remember it clearly. I never thought about it before but a policeman opened the passenger's door (the car was sitting on the bottom edge of the driver's door in the ditch and the door wouldn't open). I had already started to crawl out the passenger's side when the cop opened the door. I don't think that I unlocked the doors. So, if I remember it right, the engine didn't shut off and the doors unlocked themselves. But only the side air bags went off - the frontal ones didn't.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 18:15   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriDubInventory
I have a relative that is an insurance adjustor, and she was asking me a question about the VW's. She stated that she has a client that is saying that VW has a engine kill switch after a accident, to prevent engine fires.

So she was asking me if I had heard of that in my Jetta. This is the first that I had heard of something like that, and wasn't even sure if that was truth. But according to this person she was tallking to, she stated that all newer VW's have these. The VW in question is a 2005 Jetta, and not sure what type of motor they have, but I did ask.

Truth, or wool over the eyes?
...if it does, apparently mine wasn't working. After I woke up from the crash, I had to turn off the car myself, after hearing the low coolant buzzer go on.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:00   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMan
Why didn't the 98 TDI shut down after multiple flipping?
Because the A3 cars and presumably every VE diesel does not have the circuit from the SRS module to the fuel pump relay. Notice I said "modern" cars...the A3 design, dating back to 1993, is hardly what I would call modern. It is barely more than a warmed-over A2, dating back to 1985!

I know for certain the 2002 2.0L Jetta does, because I had some kid fry his SRS ECU while wiring up his own stereo system and the car will not run without that input. The power-up leg of the fuel pump relay goes through the SRS module.

Diesel is not nearly as volatile in a crash as gasoline is.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:12   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concours
ALL fuel injected gas engined vehicles REGARDLESS of brand, have a federally mandated inertia switch to prevent fuel from being pumped at an accident scene after broken lines. The conventional diesel engines fuel pump is mechanically driven and is inherintly safe. The PD engine's electric lift pump must also have an inertia switch built in to it's circuit.
I have to respectfully disagree. I work on numerous brands of vehicles every week, and very few of them have an actual inertia switch. There is absolutely nothing mandated by the federal government on the issue as well. I've been wrong before, but I'd bet my next paycheck on this one! What they DO require is a rollover valve which simply blocks the vent on the tank. Doesn't work real well, and if there is a hole in the tank it's useless. Here is just one example of a vehicle that I can guarantee doesn't have an inertia switch.


OPERATION

All models pass a full 360 degree rollover test without fuel leakage. To accomplish this, fuel and vapor flow controls are required for all fuel tank connections.
Two check (control) valves are mounted into the top of the fuel tank. Refer to Fuel Tank Check Valve for additional information.
An evaporation control system is connected to the fuel tank to reduce emissions of fuel vapors into the atmosphere. When fuel evaporates from the fuel tank, vapors pass through vent hoses or tubes to a charcoal canister where they are temporarily held. When the engine is running, the vapors are drawn into the intake manifold. Certain models are also equipped with a self-diagnosing system using a Leak Detection Pump (LDP) or NVLD Pump, and/or an On-Board Refueling Vapor Recovery (ORVR) system. Refer to Emission Control System for additional information.
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