Burning Lots of Motor Oil = $$$$ Repair - Help!

Dear TDI Club,
I finished an 800 mile trip from Northampton, MA to DC and I had to put 5 quarts of 5-40 into my 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon 74K with a Greasecar Kit conversion to run on vegetable fuel oil. I talked awhile with my local VW Dealer Service Manager, Bob Boyle, who suggested the following

1. We check for simply external motor oil leaks - I brought the Jetta in and they watched while running and found no external leaks ($30)
2. Fuel Injector May Need to be replaced $900 BUT he did not recommend this because he did would not know for sure if this was the problem.
3. Piston Problems - Just getting into the engine would cost $1500 and he said it would not be worth it. Just add more motor oil
4. The Veggie Oil may have gummed up the injector or the pistons or seals still equals more money than it is worth.

He is going to put his best Diesel mechanic on the car tomorrow 2-27 for one hour ($82 per hour) and see if there is a quick fix. If it is not a quick fix then he said it probably is not worth doing.

I feel bad about all the blue smoke coming out my tail pipe and I feel really bad about all the money I am wasting.

I did read Vegetable Oil DID NOT EAT MY MOTOR!!!!! but I am not certain about the source of the problem.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Sincerely,
Jolly

there are some disturbing images of melted pistons from WVO fueled TDI's... someone help with a link?

jollypair said:

I finished an 800 mile trip from Northampton, MA to DC and I had to put 5 quarts of 5-40 into my 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon 74K with a Greasecar Kit conversion to run on vegetable fuel oil. I talked awhile with my local VW Dealer Service Manager, Bob Boyle, who suggested the following

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I'd start with compression test and cylinder leakdown.

Don't you think you would have "noticed" a 5 quart oil leak What are we dealing with here? Seriously

This is a story we've heard before...

I forgot to say Dieseldorf that I had oil concerns before this big 800 mile trip and that is when I had the VW guys put it up in the lift with the skid plate off to inspect for a slow leak. I agree that 5qt should be noticeable.

I am not a car guy and I am sorry to ask some of the basics. But I want to learn.

As for your suggestion, what would the compression test do for me?

Sorry but I don't even know what a cylinder leakdown is but it sounds like a problem with the cylinder seals.

I am very interested (depressed) about your past comments about WVO. I think they may be correct and I may stop using the stuff because I don't think major repairs are good for the planet and I don't think they make monetary sense either.

I really thought the Greasecar concept was good when I first got into it. To be fair to the Greasecar people, I may not be doing my fuel processing well enough. Now I need to find someone who can go scrap off the nasty stuff that is in my cylinders. If anyone has suggestions for a good diesel place in Northampton, please let me know.

Turbo oil seal ?

I assume it is this car:

TDI:
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
Mods:
TDIHeater & Greasecar

If so, I am saddened more of hearing WVO may have claimed a Holy Grail 03 Wagon, but the good news is an 03 Wagon is probably still worth over $20k in California so patching it up will still be worthwhile, even with a $5,000 engine swap.

You got it LurkerMike! I love the TDIHeater, but I use a timer so that I don't have the thing running all night.

Would you go with an engine swap or try to clean the existing unit or or do you need more information?

Your presumption of needing a complete engine is somewhat premature. About the only thing we havent suggested yet, but which you really need to do, is take the car to someone who knows what they are doing, i.e mrchill or someone like that. Diagnosis the problem first, which shouldnt be a surprise will include taking the motor apart, analyze the damage, guesstimate the cost of the repair and then you can compare between repair or replace.

Thanks ninedee golf. Do you have mrchill's contact information?

I would take it to a trusted TDI Guru listed here, (or two just for a 2nd opinion) for a thorough diagnosis including a 5,000+ mile used oil analysis if possible.

Frank06 is at the top of the list as he has repaired several TDI's damaged by WVO and is more than capable of removing the head if that is all that is needed.

How is he going to get it from the east coast to wherever Frank is if it burns so much oil ? Take your pick from any of these folks.

Kraftwerke
10 Rex dr.
Braintree, MA 02184
(781) 849-5888 Chris Hill aka MRCHILL
http://www.kraftwerke1.com
MAP

Common Street Auto Repair
500 Common St,
Belmont, MA 02478
(617) 484-9814

jollyGreenGiant in Bradford, ma
Bradford, MA 01835
(508) 889-2620, Jonathan Hess
jvhess@comcast.net

Thanks LurkerMike. Do you have contact information for Frank06? Is he anywhere near Northampton, MA?

The cheapest & easiest way would be to check compression to determan if its piston seals are shot or its something else. Try to find tdi guru in your area to check your car, if not find one ask dealer to do compression test. Then report us back with what the compression numbers are, so we can get an idea what possible could be wrong.

Do you have a preference between the three ninedee? I am coming from Northampton, MA, BUT I have learned that it is better to drive a little farther and get the right mechanic than to go short and screw up.

I'm not familiar with Common Street Auto Repair, the other two are top notch both of which will easily get you rolling again, if you have the wallet to afford the repairs. You didnt save any money burning not stopping at the local D2 pump.

Thanks Losha. I will ask for the test tomorrow so that I can get more real data back to the TDI Folks.

I had no idea that WVO generates so many replies. I am not stuck on any one method and like to have reasonable data to back up my positions. The United Nations came out last week with a report that Biodiesel is worse for the planet than regular diesel. However, the Greasecar system might be good for the planet because it uses waste oil as a fuel and it might be a good system that I misused.

I just want to get my car working again. I don't like all the nasty exhaust I put out in my neighborhood when I start in the morning. My tail is between my legs.

Guys, isn't Frank in central MO?

Why are we jumping to conclusions?

There is alot more older cars running rough, burning fuel rich that produce more harmful emissions then your TDI highly modified with straight pipe and EGR deleted in morning. Every time I drive up close to old car from early '90s I could smell/see how fuel comes right out of their exhaust pipe.

Thanks Losha. You have one piece of good information for me. I don't think I can talk my wife into the $1200 plus money I need in order to find out what is wrong with my baby Jetta. Have you got any wife/car repair advice or is this outside the TDI Club specs?

1) Take it to Chris at Kraftwerke
2) Finance the teardown of the top end so you have reliable info to base a decision on.
3) Make a decision based on the findings.

My opinion? You will find the rings gunked up. Maybe piston damage. Probably polymerized oil.

Nothing that a $3K used engine and labor won't fix.

It's a good thing jollypair is a math teacher.... I think he is going to need those skills.

I am currently an unemployed math teacher which may explain why I am in the fix I am in. But seriously my wife just wants me to keep on buying the expensive 5-40 motor oil instead of fixing the problem.

forchristsakes....just take it to Chris at Kraftwerke. You have one of the best right there. We did tech sessions together at the last fest. Get him to do the diagnosis instead of wasting money for a BS response at the dealer. Seriously, he'd just have to do their notoriously unreliable work over.

jasonTDI said:

forchristsakes....just take it to Chris at Kraftwerke. You have one of the best right there. We did tech sessions together at the last fest. Get him to do the diagnosis instead of wasting money for a BS response at the dealer. Seriously, he'd just have to do their notoriously unreliable work over.

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DITTO, This is sound advice. Frank is too far away to drive the car to in this instance.
I'd expect to find some stuck rings, and maybe injector problems, please let us know what is found (in detail, if you can).

Bill

Lets ignore the WVO right now.... get it to a guru (Chris) and find out WHY it's using oil.
The sooner someone qualified looks at it, the sooner the damage is stopped/repaired.

Bill

If his engine was trashed by WVO then in first place I'm sure he wouldn't been able to start a car and drive by just keep adding oil. After thinking for second, sounds like rings are cooked as others said. Blue smoke is usually from bad rings. My used to smoke blue for little bit after my oil pipe broke I lost tons of oil, but not anymore.

jollypair said:

I talked awhile with my local VW Dealer Service Manager, Bob Boyle, who suggested the following

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You need to get away from there quickly.

I really thought the Greasecar concept was good when I first got into it...

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That's what they say, more and more frequently.

ninedee_golf_tdi said:

Your presumption of needing a complete engine is somewhat premature.

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It's not out of the range of possibility. Oil passages throughout the engine block could be coated with a glaze of polymerized oil... a new engine would be the only remedy.

concours said:

there are some disturbing images of melted pistons from WVO fueled TDI's... someone help with a link?

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He wouldn't have been able to complete an 800-mile trip, if this had happened.

york77777 said:

Is there anyway to remove a coating of polymerized oil from oil passages in the engine block? Some sort of solvent added with the oil for a very short time at an idle? or:

I once had a personal friend who is a mechanic tell me that I could completely clean out any gunk in my oil passageways in the engine block by idling the car for a short time with the "oil" filled with Kerosene instead of oil. (Not a TDI, my old POS 1990 Geo Metro 3cyl - I never did it of course but seemed like somewhat of a good theory).

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Sure you can try to do that, but you will endup replacing your bearings on crankshaft and ton's of other parts by running engine filled with kerosene instead of oil. In diesel kerosene would ignite and you will get runaway if you pour kerosene into oil. Its enough of engine oil itself burn if gets into intake but with kerosene mixed oil and have it get into intake you literly making bomb.

Take it to Chris at Kraftwerk and have him go through the inspection routine for you. Best of luck.