Help! Cyclical swoosh sound

Hi all. I've just started to notice a swoosh-swoosh-swoosh sound when my engine is running. The swoosh sound is running at about 2 cycles per second at 800 rpm idle. The frequency of the "swooshing" is proportional the the engine rpm's. It is coming from the passenger side, somewhere lower than the power steering pump. Any ideas? I had the timing belt, water pump, tensioner etc changed about 40K miles ago and it is supposed to be good for 80K miles. Thanks.

My guess is that one of the timing belt rollers or tensioner did not get replaced.

Its either that or the serp belt tensioner.

does it sound anything like the audio clip in this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=204426

and does it quit after you're warmed up?

puter said:

does it sound anything like the audio clip in this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=204426

and does it quit after you're warmed up?

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No, actually is sounds more like a muffled version of the sound you would get if you made short quicks scrapes of a leaf rake on concrete.

It does seem to go away after it is warmed up.

Do you know for sure if all of the timing belt rollers were replaced? I have a noise similar to what you are describing and I thought it was the alternator pulley, but I replaced that and it is still there. I have concluded that it is coming from one of the timing belt rollers. It only has 76K or so miles, so I will probably get the belt job done early.

They're probably right about a roller going bad... but also take a look at the alternator and the serpentine belt tensioner. You could remove the serp. belt and start the car and see if the sound is still there.

Where was the timing belt replaced? My guess is at a dealer where they didn't install all of the components to make your belt SYSTEM a 100,000 mile change interval SYSTEM. This would also mean that you are (as mentioned earlier) running on the original rollers which is where the noise is probably coming from. Find someone that wants to take care of your TDI rather than someone that will just fix what's broke.

I had a swoosh-swoosh sound at startup for a while... until the idler pulley fell off while I was driving

I had same noise a year ago before I change my TB, after changing TB the noise went away. That noise was coming from upper small roller that is between cam & IP sproket. My quess would be that your TB sligthly stretched and its slipping on upper roller when its cold and doesnt turn freely.

elmo_want_beer said:

I had a swoosh-swoosh sound at startup for a while... until the idler pulley fell off while I was driving

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This isn't the prefered method of getting the noise to stop.

whitedog said:

This isn't the prefered method of getting the noise to stop.

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It was temporary fix 'till his dieselgeek TB kit comes in.

I had a similar sound, and it seemed to be coming from the top timing belt roller. To confirm, I used a kid's squirt gun to get a little water into that top roller - - noise vanished for a minute. Fortunate to - that was the one bearing I could get to easily and replace in a few minutes.

tommyt said:

I had a similar sound, and it seemed to be coming from the top timing belt roller. To confirm, I used a kid's squirt gun to get a little water into that top roller - - noise vanished for a minute. Fortunate to - that was the one bearing I could get to easily and replace in a few minutes.

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I actually used squaki belt stop fluid to see if noise goes away and it did, but I don't recomend using it on TB I did it before changing TB.

I find the majority of the swishing issues are a result of the outer edge of the TB rubbing on the outer inside wall of the TB tensioner. Mostly 2003 MY's with the 100K TB assy. however, others will do it too. Those who squirt the upper idler roller will get some liquid on that outer edge of the belt resulting in temporary elimination of the swishing. Here's proof: Take TB cover off. Start vehicle when stone cold and swishing away. Take a wax candle and lightly touch the outer edge of the TB between the upper idler roller and the cam sprocket (vertical edge = closest to the passenger side of the vehicle). I promise the swishing will go away and guess what? The upper idler roller hasn't been touched. Later!

Harv: I will of course defer to your far greater expertise, but I was always under the impression that the swishing noises with which I'm familiar are the sounds coming from the dried-out bearings on one of the idlers (usually the lower small one, in my limited experience)... After removal, I can produce a very ugly-sounding noise by spinning the roller by hand...

All the best,

Yuri.

May be I should dig into my old parts box and find old idle rolle and see if I can reproduce that sound again.

Harv-- should that be taken to mean that the swish noise shouldn't be taken as cause to do a timing belt change 40k mi early?

ymz said:

Harv: I will of course defer to your far greater expertise, but I was always under the impression that the swishing noises with which I'm familiar are the sounds coming from the dried-out bearings on one of the idlers (usually the lower small one, in my limited experience)... After removal, I can produce a very ugly-sounding noise by spinning the roller by hand...

All the best,

Yuri.

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The 03 MY 100K TB assembly is by far the biggest culprit of this issue and can rear up at <50K miles in many cases. I'm not saying that in some instances the idler rollers are not an issue but, the infamous swishing referred to is most likely what I describe above. Remember, by dabbing the outside of that belt with some sort of lubricant will not affect the idler rollers and therefore this should be living proof. You will also notice that the outside edge of the belt will be shiney and has a completely different look as compared to the inside edge which can be clearly seen upon removal of belt. I have seen these belts start to fray along this outside edge if neglected for too long. Give my diagnosis a shot next time and let's report back here with results. Later!

VATechTDI said:

Harv-- should that be taken to mean that the swish noise shouldn't be taken as cause to do a timing belt change 40k mi early?

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I've seen a few start to fray but, not the majority. I'm pretty anal about these issues and I lost count on how many 03's I've acquired for inventory through the years that I have went ahead and replaced the TB assembly because of this. With my rep on the line, I can't have customer's asking what that noise is, if you know what I mean. I can tell you that even if or when these noise maker's were under factory warranty, the dealer's will not replace the belt for such. They would rather take the chance and wait out the 60K and then you are on your own, baby. Other than my inventory situation, I think it would have been safe to let the swishing continue until the 60K point and then get it rectified. Later!

Harvieux said:

I find the majority of the swishing issues are a result of the outer edge of the TB rubbing on the outer inside wall of the TB tensioner. Mostly 2003 MY's with the 100K TB assy. however, others will do it too. Those who squirt the upper idler roller will get some liquid on that outer edge of the belt resulting in temporary elimination of the swishing. Here's proof: Take TB cover off. Start vehicle when stone cold and swishing away. Take a wax candle and lightly touch the outer edge of the TB between the upper idler roller and the cam sprocket (vertical edge = closest to the passenger side of the vehicle). I promise the swishing will go away and guess what? The upper idler roller hasn't been touched. Later!

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I will try this. Thanks for the suggestion.

Regarding my timing belt replacement....It was replaced by Exklusiv Motorsports. These are the TDI go to guys here in the Phoenix area. I brought them the full up DieselGeek 100K Timing belt kit and said "put it in".. I hope they put everything in but I have no way to know. That was at 46,000 miles. The car now has 88,000 miles on it so the timing belt parts should be good for quite a while longer. As soon as I try the wax, I'll report back. Thanks for all the great input!

k1rod said:

I will try this. Thanks for the suggestion.

Regarding my timing belt replacement....It was replaced by Exklusiv Motorsports. These are the TDI go to guys here in the Phoenix area. I brought them the full up DieselGeek 100K Timing belt kit and said "put it in".. I hope they put everything in but I have no way to know. That was at 46,000 miles. The car now has 88,000 miles on it so the timing belt parts should be good for quite a while longer. As soon as I try the wax, I'll report back. Thanks for all the great input!

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Any update? Later!

Just to add my 2 cents...

My 03 Golf TDI had this sound when i got it... original belt... 101,000km. Everything appeared to be physically in good shape. The noise bothered me so I had the timing belt job done and the noise went away. Now i rest easy at night.

I dont know if it would have lasted another 2k, 10k or 50k. I chose to just change it ahead of time rather than deal with the reprocussions of a broken belt.

Harvieux said:

Any update? Later!

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Dang, it worked. As soon as I hit it with the wax, the noise went away. Now I am not sure what this means. When the wax wears off I'm guessing the noise will return. Is there a solution to this or is it something I just don't need to worry about. BTW Harv, thanks for the insight!

k1rod said:

Dang, it worked. As soon as I hit it with the wax, the noise went away. Now I am not sure what this means. When the wax wears off I'm guessing the noise will return. Is there a solution to this or is it something I just don't need to worry about. BTW Harv, thanks for the insight!

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Like I specified, I would replace the TB assembly if it was one of my inventory TDI's but, if it was my personal vehicle, I would check the outside edge of the TB at least every couple weeks. Even as much of a PITA it is, you must check it out often so you can catch it B4 or if it starts to fray on the edge of that belt. Or, if the swishing starts to last longer and longer, you may want to change it out. Yes, by waxing the outside edge as you did, you have 100% eliminated the probability of the problem being any of the idler roller's. Unfortunately, the wax is a very temporary silencer and the swishing will return in short order. Later!

It worked for me too! Waxed the belt last night and no swishy swishy this morning. Thanks Harv!

My belt is due for replacement again within the next 7k, so I'm just going to order the kit and take care of it as soon as I get a free day.

Shaggy said:

It worked for me too! Waxed the belt last night and no swishy swishy this morning. Thanks Harv!

My belt is due for replacement again within the next 7k, so I'm just going to order the kit and take care of it as soon as I get a free day.

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Are you going to tackle the job yourself? If not, contact me and it will get done right. Later!

I did it myself last time and it went swimmingly, I have all the metalnerd tools and a vag-com, and I'm not afraid to use 'em.

Shaggy said:

I did it myself last time and it went swimmingly, I have all the metalnerd tools and a vag-com, and I'm not afraid to use 'em.

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Sounds good! Congrats. Later!

Here's my question, why does replacing the belt make it go away?

This problem isn't with a bad part or bad belt, so why does it start and why does it go away with a replacement?

Would taking the belt off, putting it back on, and re-doing the timing cause the rub problem to go away entirely? Has the belt just moved slightly on it's track?

I honestly just don't understand what causes this to happen in the first place. If pulling the belt and replacing it fixes it I think I may have to get the dieselgeek tools to do it, could be a learning experience

puter said:

Here's my question, why does replacing the belt make it go away?

This problem isn't with a bad part or bad belt, so why does it start and why does it go away with a replacement?

Would taking the belt off, putting it back on, and re-doing the timing cause the rub problem to go away entirely? Has the belt just moved slightly on it's track?

I honestly just don't understand what causes this to happen in the first place. If pulling the belt and replacing it fixes it I think I may have to get the dieselgeek tools to do it, could be a learning experience

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I too, can't seem to get to the bottom of the real reason this is occuring. I do know that the belt is rubbing on the outer inside wall of the TB tensioner. The torque spec on the tensioner nut is 18 ft. lbs. (I think but, I use my mechanic's feel) but, many seem to be way, way tighter upon loosening and that goes especially for the 2003 MY's with the so called 100K factory TB assembly. Not to say that the previous MY's are any looser, it's just what I've noticed. For some reason, those belts are drifting over and causing this issue. Could it be that the FIP pump shaft is a tiny bit looser and cocking the sproket just enough to push the belt to the outside? Could the tensioner be loosening a bit at the bearing? Same for the idler's? I seriously doubt it would be the cam sprocket because it is so tight to its taper and most likely wouldn't budge unless the cam got bent somehow at the sprocket end. Later!