Cleaing intake ports

So I've been hunting around the archives and asking a few folks about cleaning intake ports. Basically, seems like 3 approaches:

1. pull the intake manifold, yank the valve cover, make sure valves are closed, go to town on the ports with scrapers, air, and vacuum. Valves can be closed by removing the cam (closes all valves) or rotating the engine by hand until one cylinder is TDC. Work on that one, then rotate again.

2. Pull the head, clean the valves. Like to avoid this one unless I need to pull the head for some other reason.

3. a couple of old threads on having the BG induction system cleaning done. This technique is done at a shop and they hook up some equipment and solvent dispensers to the intake and run the engine while spraying the cleaners into the air intake path. Supposed to clean the EGR/intake manifold/intake ports/intake and exhaust valves (I think)/exhaust side of turbo/exhaust pipes/cat. Apparently not cheap, but definitely the easiest way to go if time is more important than $.

First seems pretty straightforward but time consuming and with the potential for problems if you lose some chunks.

What are folks opinions on the BG system? We have a local shop here and I am curious. Anybody done it? Pros/Cons? How about on WVO cars (like mine)? Seems the valve deposits from WVO may be different.

Thanks,

I'm assuming they disconnect your exhaust using the BG process since all that crap is likely to clog your cat.

From what I hear the WVO buildup is pretty nasty and I would be surprised if a cleaner could take it down. If a cleaner can clean it out, I don't know I'd want that running through my engine.

I think your safest bet is to pull the head and have it fully disassembled and cleaned. If you don't want to take on the task of cleaning the head, I'd give frank06 a holler.

Good luck and let us know how it goes (preferably with pics).

NEVER EVER use any kind of cleaner like the BG system! This isn't magic where buildup disappears...its ingested and any deposits that come loose will be ingested and could ruin a perfectly good engine.

I believe VW stopped using that BG system a few years ago because it was destroying engines.

Just pull the EGR and intake manifold and clean them. Inspect the ports, but they really will not need cleaning unless your intake is almost completely clogged.

Depending on what type of engine you have, I would recommend a fourth way (I have an ALH engine). Buy an already cleaned intake manifold (ebay or otherwise. They go for about $120 shipped) and replace your dirty manifold with the one you purchased. Clean yours at your convenience and then sell yours. Circle of life kinda thing.

thebigarniedog said:

Depending on what type of engine you have, I would recommend a fourth way (I have an ALH engine). Buy an already cleaned intake manifold (ebay or otherwise. They go for about $120 shipped) and replace your dirty manifold with the one you purchased. Clean yours at your convenience and then sell yours. Circle of life kinda thing.

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He is talking about the intake ports in the head.

For the intake manifold, nothing is more fun than an acetelene torch and compressed air.

I got an easier better way to clean the manifold but for the head. There are no short cuts there. I made me a little scraper with a lip and raked the crude out carefully and only the big stuff. My head was not bad it was the intake and EGR that took the blunt of the build up.

How often does the head need to be pulled and cleaned?

whitedog said:

He is talking about the intake ports in the head.

For the intake manifold, nothing is more fun than an acetelene torch and compressed air.

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sorry .... my bad ..... dozed off on the keyboard ..... again

Use method #1, I have had good results with it and it allows you to keep any debris from falling into the cylinders. It's a little tough on the back and requires a mirror but it works very well.

I use shop air in addition to a shop-vac (reduces the mess) to clear each port. Then I inspect it before moving on to the next port.

I would suggest leaving the valve cover on during cleaning...that soot goes everywhere when you do this and the valve cover keeps it from going back into the motor and the oil.

DB

Exactly. Easiest is when doing a t-belt, pull the cam out, put valve cover back on loosly so nothing falls into motor, scrape and vac out each port as much as you can, then blast deep in each port with compressed air. Anything that could possibly fall down into the motor will be blasted out of the port by the compressed air. It would be a foolish waste of time, money, and materials to pull the cylinderhead.

So as a follow-up, once done, would a CCV trap keep the valves clean(er)? Any suggestions on which version?

When I cleaned my intake, I used my copier service vacuum and its small round wand attachment. It fits perfectly in the intake ports on the head - no scraping required. We used this method on other intake cleanings @ our GTG.

For those of you not lucky enough to be copier service techs with this vac in your trunk already, you can get this attachment from Lowes or Home Repo for your shop vac.

sdeck said:

So as a follow-up, once done, would a CCV trap keep the valves clean(er)? Any suggestions on which version?

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No, because the turbo also throws oil.

This whole plugging issue is a thing of the past with USLD, back when LSD was in the system plugging was assured and just a matter of time.

I haven't had to clean my intake OR ports in over 170,000 miles, I drive my car properly, have a 100% functioning EGR, and 100% functional CCV. Intake plugging is completely abscent from my motor and simply not a concern.

I almost laugh because people read about this past issue and freak out but don't understand that the primary cause is NOT the CCV or the turbo but the previous generation of HIGH SULFUR FUEL. Without the sulfur EGR plugging simply won't occur.

If you do clean out the intake the odds are very high you will never have to do it again.

DB

Thanks Drivbi, good to know.

Concur with Drivebiwire... this is the reason that our European friends don't tend to have any clogging issues as they have had ULSD for a long time.

Steve, I thought this was a WVO engine, not ULSD I don't believe that is true that the process isn't going to be repeatable and I don't think it's a function of sulfur or the lack of it. It's to do with the WVO getting through the system.

Some of the WVO engines I've seen have pitted valves and chunks that have fallen off the intake valves and redeveloped to fall off again. Note the #1 intake valve. A large piece of the deposits had fallen off and is redeveloping

Here is that same head from which I showed you one valve on another thread...

Note that each intake has pyrolysed oil that is greasey and hard as coke. Occasionally, chunks of the crap fall off and get crunched up in the valves. That will hold the valve open for a few cycles until it gets chewed up.That is where I think your "Puff the Magic Dragon" act came from. In this same engine the action was so prevalent that there is scoring at the sides of the cylinder.

I think a borescope look in your engine might be real interesting.

Btw: I have never seen deposits like these in any car burning D2. It only seems to happen when burning VWO.

Also, one of the problems with people depending on oil analysis to determine oil quality, like a Blackstone report, are missing a very important value which the Blackstone only hints at with an oil viscosity number.

The spectroanalysis of WVO hides in the same bands as synthetic oil. It can't be determined by spectroanalysis how much WVO has homogenized into your oil. It has to be done by blotter test.

Hey Frank,

Yes, mine is a WVO engine. 42K so far on WVO, 118K total. I will try to get to scraping the valves. Not looking forward to it (scared). Power seems to be heading down again slightly.

Can I spray/brush carb cleaner or other solvents in the port (valves closed) to loosen stuff up or is that a bad idea?

So maybe a CCV trap would help a bit in WVO engines???

Steve,

I don't think I'd use any solvents in the ports, personally. The stuff that is in there is not going to break down unless you used something very aggressive, like what you use to clean nozzles!

I'm also not wanting to put you onto a wild goose chase. You'd be torqued if you get into the intake ports and there isn't anything to talk about...

One of the suggestions was that it could be your cat. The downpipe and cat come off a WHOLE LOT EASIER than the manifold. I'd eliminate the simple first, then advance to the more complicated.

I'd also make sure there are no restrictions in the intercooler.

I am just curious frank, what would the symptoms of a restriction in the inter cooler be like? I know that when I cleaned my intake, there was residual oil/oilycarbon in the big pipe running to the intercooler, and I do have some intermittent hard start problems.

Beetler: usually you can see a blockage in VAG-COM by looking at the % on the boost valve... this will only show blockage at exhaust or intake. What happens is if the intake or exhaust is plugged, the VNT will have to actuate more to try to change the MAP value at idle... this is of course assuming you have the timing set 100% correct with no adaptation on value 04.

Beetler,

Well, one time I was having a low power issue and I fixed it like this...

LOL!
Time to remove the nonstock intercooler filter!

Hi alph, I don't have a low power issue that I know of, I was just wondering.
Thanks I will have to check that out scine I have had some exahst blockage in the passed. Maybe I have a small power issure I don't know about. wouldn't hurt to look

Wow. I have never changed the intercooler filter on either of my cars. I bet BleachedBora has a source for them though. I'll have to ask him.

I have them on hand... I sell them by the roll. You can choose Bounty or this other cheap Chinese brand. I think they both work equally well and reducing power by about 50%.

Btw: I didn't install the first "filter". It must have been done by the guy who screwed up the TB prior to my ownership.

I chose eliminate the intercooler filter and opted for 100% clear passage. I know, I'm taking a risk, but I'm willing to take the chance.

Franko6 said:

I have them on hand... I sell them by the roll. You can choose Bounty or this other cheap Chinese brand. I think they both work equally well and reducing power by about 50%.

Btw: I didn't install the first "filter". It must have been done by the guy who screwed up the TB prior to my ownership.

I chose eliminate the intercooler filter and opted for 100% clear passage. I know, I'm taking a risk, but I'm willing to take the chance.

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Maybe K&N makes a good filter for it? They say they flow really well.

Drivbiwire said:

Without the sulfur EGR plugging simply won't occur.

DB

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Maybe, but sdeck is running WVO. The buildup on intake valves Frank06 mentions I presume it is from unburnt blowby gasses with fine droplets of hot WVO that gets pulled into the intake through the CCV.

Many of the WVO burners are experiencing this buildup. It is the gremlin that won't go away.

nicklockard said:

Maybe, but sdeck is running WVO and has a lot of buildup on his intake valves. I presume it is from unburnt blowby gasses with fine droplets of hot WVO that gets pulled into the intake through the CCV.

Many of the WVO burners are experiencing this buildup. It is the gremlin that won't go away.

Click to expand...

so turning down the egr is good in this case?

Beetler said:

so turning down the egr is good in this case?

Click to expand...

It might not be a bad idea to route CCV gasses to an elephant hose and block off EGR when running WVO.

But, WVO blowby could also contaminate the engine oil and enter the intake by way of the turbo seals. In that case, WVOiler's best bet is probably to drive the car harder and not let them idle extensively.

I changed the previous post because I realized sdeck hasn't yet diagnosed whether his valves actually have buildup. Frank06 is right: he needs to check the catalyst first before checking the valves.

He practices a 5000 mile OCI so that keep the crank case oil cleaner too.
yeah it easier to chack the exhast flow