Cold starting practices, NO start @ 10 degrees Fahrenheit

1998993C2S · Dec 26, 2007

EDIT: VWoA HAS PAID ME $5K TO SETTLE THIS DESIGN DEFECT. A CLASS ACTION WOULD BE CAKE. . . . . . . .

It has been 10 degrees Fahrenheit the last few days in Vail, Colorado. My MY06 TDI is parked outside the car is cold - and it won't start. Is there any trick in getting the TDI started in below freezing temperatures? I wouldn't think 10 degrees should pose any starting difficulty; There's a fresh tank of appropriate winter diesel fuel and a little extra insurance by way of an ounce or two of winter diesel fuel conditioner. Edit; 8 ounces of Power Service Conditioner.
Edit: I recently drove from Atlanta to Denver. Fueled up (13.5 gal) in Denver the other day at my favorite station, and drove the 100 miles to Vail, parking the car. Bought car new 9/06 and have 29k miles presently on the clock.

The ambient temperature is 10 degrees Fahrenheit and I am using a start sequence as follows: key in the ignition, DSG in park, e-brake on, pkg. 2 HVAC off, turn key, pause… waiting for the glow plug indicator to go out, turn key further to initiate the starter-motor, foot off of the accelerator all the while. Turns over, however the engine just won't light up. Wait a minute (60sec.), try starting again, although the engine just won't light up. Cold, Cold. What to do?

DPM · Dec 26, 2007

Can you hear the in-tank fuel pump whine when you turn the ignition on? Any flashing idiot lights whilst the starter operates?

1998993C2S · Dec 26, 2007

No flashing idiot lights of any kind, and no, I can't say the in-tank pump is heard whining.

However the car eventually started as the ambient temperatures rose close to 30 degrees mid-day. After a brief idle period the car drove as usual,,, about 40 miles at 70 mph or so. Drove fine. The VW dealer in Denver has us for a scheduled warranty service for the problematic Navigation system. I'll mention the cold No start issue…???

ssamalin · Dec 26, 2007

It's about 20 here. I just turn the key all the way for 1-2 seconds, if it doesn't start the second try of the same has been working. Try a weekly near red line moment while merging, I think it helps.

daleho1 · Dec 26, 2007

I was having the same problem so I installed one of these
http://www.frostheater.com/ I have read on this site that with a vag com you can extend the glow plug time. the dealer could tell you for sure. IMO the block heater is the way to go

10then34 · Dec 26, 2007

There shouldn't be an issue at 10 above. Glowplugs ?

1998993C2S · Dec 26, 2007

A suitable approach could very well be an extended Glow Plug duration. I own a VagCom, though it's not here in Colorado; dam! I wonder if by sequencing the Glow Plug cycle twice and then starting the car, if this would have any impact? It's a mystery (to me) how the Glow Plug circuit was arranged? Anyway, I'll try this in the morning.

The aux heater is a time honored approach, providing there's a reliable source of AC, which is not often the case. Thanks for the option though!

Beerme · Dec 27, 2007

Shouldn't be a starting problem at 10f, something is amiss, I would look into fuel and glowplugs first and extend search from there.

Of course Espar\Webasto is a nice answer too

wrenchman30 · Dec 27, 2007

if it happens again try stepping on the throttle pedal a smidge. double cycling the glow plugs really doesnt help. waiting a few seconds after the glow plug light goes on should help.

tomo366 · Dec 27, 2007

wrenchman30 said:
if it happens again try stepping on the throttle pedal a smidge. double cycling the glow plugs really doesnt help. waiting a few seconds after the glow plug light goes on should help.

Stepping on the throttle pedal does nothing........The car is drive by wire....

Ol'Rattler · Dec 27, 2007

tomo366 said:
Stepping on the throttle pedal does nothing........The car is drive by wire....

What does throttle(drive) by wire have to do with it? Depressing the throttle when the engine is cranking, should schedule more fuel, just like it does when the engine is running.

tomo366 · Dec 27, 2007

It doesn't until the engine is running...........

10then34 · Dec 27, 2007

In very cold weather (-20F after 8hrs of rest), I had the experience that the engine would crank 2-3 seconds, fire for a couple of revolutions and then die. In that case, blipping the throttle a bit right after you hear the first ignition indeed keeps it running (you just have to be careful not to rev it up unreasonably during the first couple of seconds it takes the ice-cold oil to make it into places like valve lifters etc). Don't know whether the ECU does anything but it's standard start-up fueling if you push the pedal before the engine fires.

Tim Birney · Dec 27, 2007

Cold Weather (30F and below), turn the key on, Glow Plug Light goes out, wait for the SYMBOL of the car to extinguish, then start.
The Car Symbol is just up and to the right of the Glowplug squiggly.
I just wait until all of the normal lights go out, then start.

BudLight · Dec 29, 2007

I just got home to Denver from two very cold nights in Dillon where the temps were about -12 degrees. I had a real problem getting my 06 started. I almost drained the battery cranking on it. I, of course, recycled the glow plug warm up each time. I have 18,000 miles on the car with a fuel filter change coming at 20,000 miles. I am considering changing it now just in case there is water or it is really dirty?? I also use Stanadyne.... I will check out a block heater.

1998993C2S · Dec 29, 2007

Hey BudLight, we're just around the corner so-to-speak and certainly we experience the similar cold weather fronts coming through the mountains.

My starting experience's of the last few days are similar to yours, and would have also drained the vehicles battery if it were not for an aux battery available. We just hooked the aux 12v battery via a quaility set of jumper cables. Once the car did start, it drove fine the whole 110 miles to VW Denver. Our car has 29K miles and the fuel filter/air/oil filters were all serviced at 21K miles. (early for the air filter) From day one every tank of fuel has seen diesel fuel conditioner. Is water or condensation in the fuel filter the culprit… I dunno.

As an aside, at around 2 months old and 2k miles, I had the same cold starting issue's as I have now: Vail, Colorado, December 2006, 10 degrees Fahrenheit ambient and the car had been sitting for a couple of days. Very, very hard to start. Months later at 5k miles or so, at a VW dealer service episode, noted was the cold temp., hard start and VW found nothing and did nothing. I forget the VW language on the RO, however the engine was working within VW parameters or some nonsense. My work around was not to drive the TDI to the mountain house when it's cold.

Anyway,,,, I'll let both you and the forum in on what tack the Denver VW dealer takes….

DrewD · Dec 29, 2007

I've had my 04 and 06 TDI and my wife's 06 Jeep CRD start with no problems or block heater usage at -20 deg F. Something is not right if your TDI requires lots of cranking to get it started at higher temps.

shaolin · Dec 29, 2007

You guys scare me, I am leaving in couple days to Durango, Co for a ski trip. Now I have my fingers crossed.

whitedog · Dec 29, 2007

shaolin said:
You guys scare me, I am leaving in couple days to Durango, Co for a ski trip. Now I have my fingers crossed.

Put some additive in each tank and you will be fine.

shaolin · Dec 29, 2007

I use Stanadyne almost every tank. Do I need some other additives?

CAATS_Man · Dec 29, 2007

Change your fuel source; it sounds like you filled with old summer fuel.

whitedog · Dec 29, 2007

shaolin said:
I use Stanadyne almost every tank. Do I need some other additives?

Is that Winter formula or Summer?

1998993C2S · Dec 30, 2007

The fuel stop facility we frequent is a high volume Denver truck stop adjacent to interstate highway I-70. Could the Colorado facility be dispensing a summer fuel blend in late December?? Playing with this long shot idea, with a strong application of winter fuel conditioner, (Power Service) how sensitive would a full tank of summer fuel be to 10-20 degree Fahrenheit overnight temperature range?

In this region of the country, I'd think the refineries would have changed their diesel formulation from summer to winter no later than September/October.

Edit: After speaking with the owner/operator of the Shell service station in Vail, the diesel fuel becomes a winterized blend at the end of August, early September. Rest assured that fuel purchased in December/Denver was winterized fuel.... Yeah, a little Power Service conditioner couldn't hurt.

BudLight · Dec 30, 2007

I will change out the fuel filter on Wednesday and head back up to the mountains for Wednesday night. I will see if it makes a difference. I did not have this problem last winter with the Jetta, so some variable has changed (fuel, filter, or lower over-night temperature?).
-Bud

Mase · Dec 30, 2007

Hey guys... funny I found this thread. I'm in Breckenridge, CO right now with an '06 DSG which won't start. Cranks fine... but no start (fuel is from Denver a couple weeks ago). I'm using my backup Jeep... but I'd like to get this thing going. What do you think about using a space heater neat the engine to heat things a little? The temps won't be above freezing for several more days now. Or... should I call VW to have them come pick it up under warranty? I've read about several other folks whose cars start even at -15.

Best regards,

nutdriver · Dec 30, 2007

My older 2000 NB would routinely start without serious delays down to -10. It might have gone even lower but it is rarely that cold in Kansas. Surely someone from the cold regions of our country or Canada will have this sorted out on how the PD engines handle the colder weather. I have no objections to the coolant heaters but what happens when there is no 110 V power available on a trip??

wrenchman30 · Dec 30, 2007

the air is cold, more oxygen in cold air, needs more fuel to get a good burn. push the throttle pedal down some. you should start fine.

shaolin · Dec 30, 2007

It doesn't say. It's for performance and it does mention that it help lower the frozen point and help the fuel flow better.....

1998993C2S · Dec 30, 2007

Hey MASE, I'd try the space heater… what could it hurt. The other morning (Vail) when the TDI wouldn't start, the midday temps rose to 25 to 30 degrees, and the TDI started right up. A little heat… No worries.

The VW roadside assistance call center was willing to pay for a tow to the closest VW dealer. The closest to my location was Glenwood Springs VW, that's 60 miles west of Vail. The VW call center wouldn't tow the TDI to our Denver VW dealer which is 100 miles east of Vail, although I offered to pay the differential cost. The closest VW dealer get's the car, no exceptions is the word we received. Mapquest show's your location Breckenridge CO, 97 miles to Glenwood Springs VW or / Breckenridge CO, 86 miles to Denver.
I had the luxury of a additional battery and just keep cycling the glow plugs and starter motor. Once the TDI finally fired up, it drove the 100 miles to VW Denver without a glitch.. The TDI is there now.

whitedog · Dec 30, 2007

wrenchman30 said:
the air is cold, more oxygen in cold air, needs more fuel to get a good burn. push the throttle pedal down some. you should start fine.

Last I heard, on a VW, the computer ignores any throttle input when the engine is starting. Where did you get your new information?

Cold starting practices, NO start @ 10 degrees Fahrenheit

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