Winter Fuel Worries

It's getting close to that time of year when the weather will be getting cold, and this is the first diesel car I have ever owned. I have heard that in real cold weather, the diesel will "gel" up. I live in Chicago, IL and sometimes the temperature drops below zero for quite a few days, and more often at night. Are they any precautions I need to take to prepare for the cold? While I am at work where the car is parked outside in the elements, is there anything I should be doing?

Your comments will be most appreciated

One of the world's superpowers can't even make diesel that doesn't gel? Even third-world countries don't have that problem these days.

Just use a good anti-gel additive, and don't worry about it. I didn't use any the first winter I had my car, and had no problems, even below zero for several days (Most diesel is winterized anyway).

I use it now for peace of mind more than anything else. The added lubricity and cetane are plusses, too.

All commercial diesel (not home brew) will have the needed anti-gel additives except ....

* If it suddenly gets very cold far earlier in the season than expected
* You buy fuel in Florida and drive north into some very cold weather
* You don't drive you car enough and have not bought fuel for three months when it gets very cold.

If it really worries you, you can buy anti-gel at some parts stores and most truck stops in the north. They should have it where you live this time of year. However it is very un likely you will need it.

I use 6 oz. of this stuff at every fillup during the cold months. I get it by the big jug at the local Wal Mart.

http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/default.asp?view=app

__. Don't worry, Eat! There is a timetable for "winterization" of diesel fuel. In northern Minnesota, they start early in the autumn and by late autumn, there's lots of anti-gel in the fuel. In Louisville, KY, they start later and there will be less anti-gel in the fuel in the dead of winter (they don't need it). The fuel in Tucson won't see much if any winterization. If you buy fuel where you burn it and buy fuel reasonably often, you won't have any problem.

__. On the other hand, if you drive to Atlanta and visit your cousin and fill up there before you come home or if the weatherman is screaming "we're going to break the record cold temp tonight by 11 degrees", you can get the Power Service white as noted at Wawwmott and be fine. Just keep it in mind but don't worry about it. Even backward third-world countries (like the UK) don't always get it absolutely right but just paying a little attention will keep you just fine.

Now is not the time to try a tank of B-100.

Also here in the front range of Colorado you can get into trouble if you buy a tank of "normal" diesel down in Boulder in the early fall and then drive to the top of a Mountain and stay the night.

Some have said that if you buy from a backwoods station that doesn't sell much diesel you may get fuel that has not yet been properly winterized in the fall.

The bottom line is that you really don't need to worry about it. Just buy normal diesel at normal stations and drive normally and you should not have any troulble.

One note though: Review the starting instructions for very cold weather in your car manual. I was amazed last year how many of my idols on this site did not realize that under extremely cold conditions you are supposed to let the engine overrun the starter ( on the 02 tdi).

Oh and don't leave it to idle thinking it will warm up. It won't. Just drive nicely for a few miles once it stops idling roughly. When it is way cold my car can take more than five miles to reach normal temp even at 60 mph!!!

All good advice - Especially about "Just drive nicely for a few miles once it stops idling roughly." . These cars will not warm up too much in the cold unless they are driven. Road tripping - If going from warm area to cold area - before shutting down for the night - fillup with local fuel.

As far as keeping YOU warm -
#1 - bundle up
#2 - when not using the defroster, turn on the recirc and don't turn your fanspeed higher than 3
#3 - Electric Seats ! Wonderful things to have.

And some good car care tips
#4 - Good battery - NOW is the time to check it and replace if it is getting old.
#5 - PROPER OIL - none of that 15w40 stuff - it needs to be the 5w40 / 0wX oils that VW recomends.
#6 - If you're getting close to fuel filter replacement time - do it now. Easier when its warm.

If your car fuel DOES gel up - the only thing that will help is getting it into a "relatively warm" garage.

And READ YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL ABOUT COLD WEATHER OPERATION / STARTUP ! If by some reason you don't have one - speak up so we can tell you the proper procedure.

ONE other thing - I noticed that you said you have a 2001 TDI with 55,000 miles. If you have a 5 speed manual, you're getting close to time for a timing belt job - if you have a 4 speed automatic, you're 15,000 miles overdue. With the 5 speed, I'd find a TDI CLub trusted mechanic to get the TB job done right. While they are working,they will probably make sure your injection timing is set correctly - if you start having starting problems starting, I'd get in touch with them to check it out.

eats1963 said:

It's getting close to that time of year when the weather will be getting cold, and this is the first diesel car I have ever owned.

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It's funny to hear you say this when it was almost 90 degrees yesterday.

eats1963 said:

I have heard that in real cold weather, the diesel will "gel" up. I live in Chicago, IL and sometimes the temperature drops below zero for quite a few days, and more often at night.

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This is true.

However, most responsible, reliable diesel merchants will make sure their fuel is winterized appropriately for the upcoming cold. I have an uninsulated, unheated garage, and I keep a mason jar of untreated-by-me fuel in it. Even last winter when it was -11 F (-24 C) outside, the fuel was still bright, clear & completely liquid, and both cars fired up like it was 60 degrees out. Toss in a little bit of your favorite antigel - I've used Howes Diesel Treat and Power Service winter formula (white bottle) - and never gelled.

Buy fuel from a reputable, high-turnover station (truck stops are great), treat it with whatever fuel treatment you like and change your fuel filter before winter. Make sure your glow plugs & battery are in working order, and make DARN sure you have the correct oil in your car (5W-40 diesel-rated synthetic, your 01 will do fine with Shell Rotella T (blue bottle) or Mobil 1 Turbodiesel Truck) and you should have no problems.

Since you're in the Chicago area, you might consider coming up to the GTG in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin at the end of the month. Meet some of the locals, learn a bit about your car, generally hang out & have a good time. Good time to do pre-winter maintenence, too.

Now it's time for me to drive to get lunch... with the air conditioning on.

Lousy Octember weather.

scurvy said:

It's funny to hear you say this when it was almost 90 degrees yesterday.

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Heck it is still over 90º f as I write this at 3:30 pm today in Central Ohio.

Joe_Meehan said:

Heck it is still over 90º f as I write this at 3:30 pm today in Central Ohio.

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It's Indian Summer -- and it won't last. Even if this year a La Nina is developing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_nina

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.html

We had frost here this morning near Denver. Temps about 20 degrees lower than normal. So you you folks east of Colorado should expect a fair drop in temperature in the next day or so!!!

I carry a bottle of Diesel 911 just in case.

And mrGutWrench, thanks for the reminder because that is exactly what I'm going to be doing. Going to Atlanta to see my cousins. I won't be going very far north, but I'll be sure to add some good anti-gel when I fill up in Reno on the way back.

Funguy said:

We had frost here this morning near Denver. Temps about 20 degrees lower than normal. So you you folks east of Colorado should expect a fair drop in temperature in the next day or so!!!

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This is true.

Yesterday's high at Midway Airport, Chicago IL = 88.0 F (31.1 C)
Tomorrow's forecasted low = 45 F (7.2 C)

I can't wait.

It also bears repeating that normal non-winterized straight #2 ULSD should be good down to around 20 F (-6.7 C) before it starts to plug fuel filters - but it's always a good idea to fill up with fresh fuel in cold regions when on a roadtrip and add a dose of your preferred antigel.

This will be my first year with my 99.5 tdi , i guess i will know if the gp,s are working correctly real soon !!!!

However we usually only get down to about -4 max

This is also my first winter with my 2003. going to go put the snow tires on today, as part of town already got some snow and its down to high teens (F) at night.

i filled recently (2 weeks ago) but used PS Silver, i went and bought a new bottle of PS white yesterday and i think i will put that in and top off the tank.

but this AM is the big test. i put in a new battery yesterday, my OEM was really chugging in the morning (at 29 F).

also, at what temperature will non-anti-gel'd diesel gel?

edit: i also dont have a owners manual

Inspector14 said:

.. at what temperature will non-anti-gel'd diesel gel?

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I don't know if the ULSD has made any difference and there are differences in the cloud point with different feed stocks, but I would stick with the +20º F number for a good working figure. I generally treat my fuel if it is going below freezing and I doubt if the fuel I have has been winterized.

20F !? yikes. i need to go to the gas station and put some PS white in there.

last night it was high teens, tonight, colder. there is just diesel in there now, no powerservice or any other additive other than whats in the fuel.

maby since it didnt gel last night it wont tonight...

Joe_Meehan said:

I would stick with the +20º F number for a good working figure. I generally treat my fuel if it is going below freezing

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I concur. If it's going below freezing, I'm treating my fuel. It's probably already treated. Probably.

4 ounces of prevention is worth several hours of cussing and using Antigel 911 as a cure.

scurvy

Inspector14 said:

20F !? yikes. i need to go to the gas station and put some PS white in there.

last night it was high teens, tonight, colder. there is just diesel in there now, no powerservice or any other additive other than whats in the fuel.

maby since it didnt gel last night it wont tonight...

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Since you're in Alaska you would already be getting anti gel in "just diesel" already, if it was even ever removed. We have diesel generators at work and we are geting slightly treated fuel and it's still hasn't hit freezing yet.

Just talked to the guy who is responsible for the diesel generators and said we are currently getting treated fuel with a cloud point of -17 oC. Gelling is further down. The best we get is cloud point of -28 oC.

My recomendation

Before it gets really cold what I do is run a tankfull with some Stanadyne additive in it through the old filter so the additive will deemulsify any water in the fuel. Let the old filter trap the water and then install a new fuel filter for the winter. Instead of the normal filter change scheduel I just change it before winter every year. In my opinion, most winter fuel delivery problems are from icing, not gelling.

I live up in minneapolis and haven't have gelling problems (and don't use additives). Stick with the advice on using high turnover diesel stations....i.e. truck stops or stations on busy freeways, etc. I seriously doubt my local station even runs through a full underground tank in a season...its probably still left over from May .

I asked the truck stop i frequent about their winter blend. Its already D1 mixed (kerosene). There were a few times i didnt want to chance it so i put in 10% D1 and 90% B2 (all D2 diesel in MN is B2) manually and had no problems. You'll know when you get winterized diesel....meaning your mpg go from 50 to 40 and your engine sounds like a freight train .

Anyone know if I need to treat B20 differently than D2 or should it have anti-gel already?

midntdi said:

Anyone know if I need to treat B20 differently than D2 or should it have anti-gel already?

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Depends on where the B20 is coming from. If it's homebrew, there likely is no anti-gel at all in it. If it's winterized D2, you might have enough anti-gel in the D2 to cover you. If it comes from a commercial source, I would ask the producer what's in it. B20 will cloud well before D2 without additives in either. I would make sure I knew what was going into the tank.

[Edit: used better math ]