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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old September 26th, 2007, 15:47   #1
wjdell
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Florida
Fuel Economy: avg. 41.93 high 46.32 low 34.6
Default UOA history 06 1.9 TDI PD

UOA's start @ 10 K
1 Motul Specific 505.01 5W40 GEN I -- oil & filter

2 Motul Specific 505.01 5W40 GEN I -- oil
3 Amsoil AFL 505.01 5W40 GEN II ----- oil & filter
4 VW LL III 504/407 5W30 --- oil - DRF count this OCI
5 VW LL III 504/507 5W30 --- oil & filter
6
VW LL III 504/507 5W30 --- oil & filter
7 S9000 CJ4 505.01 5W40 -- oil & filter & DG Amsoil BP90
8
S9000 CJ4 505.01 5W40 -- 4 qt oil only 6 qt system (projection in red)

Ave mpg ---- 42.5 -- 43.0 --- 43.0 --- 43.0 ---- 43.2 --- 43.0 ---- 42.9 --- 42.9 -- 42.8
Hours / oil --- 132 --- 131 ---- 100 -- 103 ---- 150 ----- 184 ---- 132 --- 216 ---- 225
Miles / oil -- 5009 -- 5000 -- 4000 -- 4000 --- 6021 --- 7001---- 5178 -- 8140 -- 10600

Fe - 24 - 24 - 22 22 -- 15 - 17 ---- 9 -- 16 -- 21
Cr --- 1 - 1 - 0 --- 0 ---- 0 -- 0 ----- 1 --- 0 --- 1
Ni --- 1 - 1 - 0 --- 0 ---- 0 -- 0 ----- 3 --- 0 --- 0

Al --- 4 - 4 - 3 --- 2 ---- 4 -- 4 ----- 1 --- 4 --- 4
Cu -- 3 - 3 - 2 --- 3 ---- 4 -- 4 ----- 3 --- 4 --- 4
Pb -- 2 - 2 - 2 --- 2 ---- 3 -- 6 ----- 3 --- 4 --- 5
Sn 0 - 0 - 1 --- 0 ---- 1 -- 1 ----- 2 --- 1 --- 1
Si --- 4 - 6 - 5 --- 6 ---- 3 -- 4 ---- 10 -- 9 --- 9
Na - 15 9 - 7 --- 8 ---- 3 -- 2 ------ 9 -- 9 --- 6
K ---- 1 - 2 - 1 --- 2 ---- 1 -- 3 ----- 3 --- 3 --- 3

Fuel Vol --- < .5% - <.5% - <.5% - <.5% - <.5% - <.5% - <.5% - <.5% - <.5%
Soot Vol --- <.1% - <.1% - <.1% - <.1% -- <.1% - .1% ---- <.1% - <.1% - <.1%
Vis 100C --- 13.4 - 13.2 --- 13.1 - 11.5 -- 11.3 -- 11.5 ---- 14.1 --- 14.2 -- 14.3
TBN ----------- N/A --- N/A ---- N/A --- 4.88 -- N/A --- N/A ----- 7.02 --- 6.3 --- N/A

Direct Read Ferrography @ 593 hours 23,500 mi.
110 large > 5 micron - 43 small < 5 micron
Wear Particle Concentration - WPC = 153
Wear Severity Index - WSI = 67
Ratio 2.28 to 1 - Any # exceeding 5 to 1 is considered high enough to warrant further testing.

Schaeffer S9000 5W40 CJ4 505.01
VOA -- / --- UOA @ 1315 miles w/8.5 hrs on bypass filter
Fe -------------- 1 ------------- 4
Al --------------- 0 ------------- 0
Cu -------------- 0 ------------- 2
Pb -------------- 0 ------------- 1
Si ------------- 10 ----------- 13
Na -------------- 5 ------------- 9
Mg ---------- 944 ---------- 711
Ca ---------- 1254 ------- 1249
P ----------- 1110 -------- 1066
Zn ---------- 1184 -------- 1238
Vis 100C - 15.7 -------- 14.4
PQ ---------- N/A ------------ 7 ------ 1 @5178 miles thats amazing

ISO Code 22/21/15
4 micron ~~ 37,645
6 micron ~~ 18,237
10 micron ~~ 3,155
14 micron ~~~ 277
21 micron ~~~~ 29
38 micron ~~~~~ 2
70 micron ~~~~~ 0
100 micron ~~~~ 0

VOA - VW LLIII #G052195M2 VOA
Al ~~ 3
Si ~~ 1
Na ~~ 3
Mg ~~ 5
Ca ~ 1449
P ~~ 528
Zn ~~ 589
Vis 100C ~ 12.2
Oxidation ~ 15.00
Nitration ~ 11.0

Last edited by wjdell; May 10th, 2009 at 18:23. Reason: update
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Old September 26th, 2007, 16:30   #2
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I think your Fe count is fairly low and certainly nothing to worry about. I can't say I'm surprised about the 507 results. It seems like the oil is doing a good job, but it also seems like there are many other oils out there that will do the job equally well. The small differences in ppm are probably within the margin of error. I'm starting to think the actual performance differences between different brands and certifications of oils are probably not as large as many people make them out to be.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 16:41   #3
dieseldorf
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wj, I think you've got to run a few change intervals with the new product prior to drawing any conclusions.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 16:57   #4
wjdell
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Your correct DD - and in all fairness this interval was from June to Sept and the temps were the highst since I have lived here, one week it was 100F 3 days in a row in August. The A/C was on 3 constant, mileage was down only a bit so the oil actually was better as far as MPG. The short interval is deceptive and that is over now I just wanted to keep things even with the last 505.01. The oil did fine I guess I was just hoping for those super low numbers. I think the next UOA with SLX III will be a better example. I did the FERRO but am not sure if those counts are POOR, FAIR, GOOD or EXCELLENT. I am not draining this oil yet so it will be a long time before I can post my next UOA 150 hours.
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814


~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6


Last edited by wjdell; February 27th, 2008 at 22:55.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 18:24   #5
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I don't understand why you were expecting "super low numbers". Is it because of all the 507 hype on this forum? Looking at your prior numbers, I think your UOA results are very consistent regardless of the oil. If I were you I wouldn't expect drastically different results on your next UOA, otherwise you're just asking for another disappointment. I don't know about the ferro numbers, but the spectrographic Fe looks good to me. I wish mine were that low.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 21:45   #6
wjdell
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DA don't be so quick to jump the gun. The data is inconclusive at this point. This was a flush for me as I only added 4 lt of 507. So there was quite a bit of 505.01 still in there. I knew I would not get it all out. 22 ppm Fe at 4k may only be 30 ppm Fe at 8k, thats under the national average of 37. The number 37 is based on the older engines not PD's, so in fact my numbers may be excellent. The 30 oz or so of 505.01 may have hurt this reading. Stay objective till we have more data. There are lots of reasons for PD owners to be excited about 507. The low ash is a big blessing for our rings. I know it will be some time but I am sure we will see a very good UOA at 150 hours, Feb or Mar of next year. It will be mostly 507 as the second run, I am coming into winter so less AC time, mileage will go back up also.
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814


~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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Old September 27th, 2007, 05:25   #7
rjr311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjdell
DA don't be so quick to jump the gun. The data is inconclusive at this point. This was a flush for me as I only added 4 lt of 507. So there was quite a bit of 505.01 still in there. I knew I would not get it all out. 22 ppm Fe at 4k may only be 30 ppm Fe at 8k, thats under the national average of 37. The number 37 is based on the older engines not PD's, so in fact my numbers may be excellent. The 30 oz or so of 505.01 may have hurt this reading. Stay objective till we have more data. There are lots of reasons for PD owners to be excited about 507. The low ash is a big blessing for our rings. I know it will be some time but I am sure we will see a very good UOA at 150 hours, Feb or Mar of next year. It will be mostly 507 as the second run, I am coming into winter so less AC time, mileage will go back up also.
I see you have an `06. Do you run Bio ?

I have an `04 passat wagon and run B70 or greater and am going to be interested to see my 10K uoa w/ Elf 507 and how it compares to those w/straight dino or bio.

robert

Last edited by rjr311; September 27th, 2007 at 05:38.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 08:09   #8
wjdell
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rjr311 - no ULSD since new. 22 gallons of LSD first and second tank only.
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814


~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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Old September 27th, 2007, 10:51   #9
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wjdell, I don't consider myself to be jumping the gun here. In fact if you look at my previous posts I've been pretty neutral about the 507 standard, neither condemning it nor praising it, and these 2 UOA's that we're discussing right now have not changed my stance one way or another. Why would the low ash be a blessing for our rings? I think the low ash is primarily for newer catalysts and particulate filters. In the engine you need some ash to keep things clean because the ash actually is part of the oil detergents and it's not really the type of ash you find in a cigarette tray. All I'm really saying is don't get all worked up over a few ppm. I bet your PD can't really tell the difference between a 505.01 and a 507.00 oil and doesn't care which one you feed it.

Last edited by Diesel Addict; September 27th, 2007 at 10:55.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 13:05   #10
wjdell
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I still feel that 507 is a superior oil to 505.01, although there really is no proof at this time. I am not losing sleep over my UOA its a good UOA. The UOA is not my best but I feel the 507 will give me my best UOA and I will show this come Feb of 2008. The national average is 4.4 ppm Fe per k. So I want to achieve a number that is lower. I think its my fault the UOA does not reflect better than previous. I did not drain my preluber and I did not change the filter. I did not think that additve clash would be a issue but maybe I am wrong. I also thought no matter how much I drained it would not get all the 505.01 out and I figured on the second change it would be better. I will change the filter and drain the preluber this time. I will give SLX III two more trys and if I do not get better numbers I will consider going back to a 505.01. Ash is a double edge sword and the less ash the better. Just compare car oils to aircraft piston engines which have a very high ash, they also are rebuilt very often when compared to car engines.
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814


~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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Old September 27th, 2007, 13:17   #11
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You are correct that ash is a double edge sword. Too much or too little is bad. The 507 oils appear to be pushing the lower limit. Don't get me wrong, I too think you should do at least one more 507 UOA, but I don't think additive clash is an issue here. The 507 oils, like any other oil, don't have any alien ingredients that will react with our Earthly oils. I have yet to see any oil that's not compatible with another one. Wear numbers don't just depend on the oil used. The individual engine and driving conditions play a big role too.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 15:42   #12
JB05
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DA, I share your feelings toward the lower ash standard. I would think the harsher urban environments that many here see (lots of stop-n-go)
demand a slightly higher SAPS to better protect the engine.
Wj, thanx for sharing your frequent UOA's. Not sure what you mean by Ferro.
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Old September 27th, 2007, 16:03   #13
wjdell
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Well the Ferro is a Fe count only of particles that would not be detected by Spectro. They say that if this count triggers a alarm then you should do the full test 100USD. They said nothing about the level being high or low. I was hoping that someone with some experience with these counts would chime in and let us know if this count is excellent good or fair. I know its not poor because Polaris would have jumped to get me to test further. I can tell you that my DSG was cleaner at 34/19.

You are all welcome for the UOA's. The only way I can justify the cost is by sharing with the forum. I am comfortable I have a good motor that is wearing well. I will be doing only 150 hours + after this. If castrol is the oil I will be using permanent, then I will start skipping to every other or third OC. I will test everydrain of the DSG.
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814


~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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Old September 27th, 2007, 16:58   #14
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fwiw - i personally would not attribute the Castrol 507 results to anything other than the Castrol 507 product. if VW dealers are selling Castrol 507 for $6 and change, and Mobil, ELF, etc. are in the $10 ballpark... there's at least a chance that higher cost is correlated with higher performance. but, let's let the UOAs do the talking .
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Old September 27th, 2007, 17:56   #15
wjdell
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Maybe, but then that does not say to much for VAG's testing then does it. Its 507 oil and I doubt that Elf or Mobil spent a large margin more than neccessary to exceed the spec. I think you will find Mobil and Castrol have more in common than Elf, including B and Mo..
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Post your UOA data in the TDI UOA Database thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814


~ USED OIL ANALYSIS ~ http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=190958
~
1.9 PD Jetta V ~ pkg 1 ~
DSG ~ 17" VV ~ 36/34 psi ~
ULSD ~ DG-BP90 - speed 39.2
hwy/city 83% / 17% ~
elev 58 ft / temp 72 F / humidity 76% ~ MPG 48.3 / 42.8 / 35.6

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