Is 300hp obtainable?

What kind of power could a ALH reasonably put down with:
H beam rods
machined and cryoed pistons
ARP bolts and studs throughout
o-ringed block/head
12mm pump (maybe larger?)
huge nozzles
big turbo (GT28+)
ported/polished head
race cam with supporting hardware
open 3" or 3.5" exhaust
large FMIC


Would ~300hp/~500tq be unreasonable? How about with nitrous/propane/meth? How long could something like this survive?

300 is the holy grail of 1.9 tdi performance. Your receipe will probably get you there if not close. You'll have to drop the compression quite a bit, and probably install larger valves, and go nuts with the porting/polishing. You'd probably need a larger turbo like a GT30..

I'm thinking with 300hp its going to be more like 700 tq. Not too many FWD transaxles can handle that. Thats going to be quite the spending on just that!

that would be interesting to see, sure you can give kerma (charlie) a call and see if he has aything that could help you out.

Between the auto and 5sp. in the mk4 golfs, which would handle the power better?
5sp with lsd and clutch
auto with torque converter

Or would I be looking at opening the trannys up for more extensive work (input shafts, custom gears, etc)? Would it be cheaper to locate a 6sp? Or are those up to the task either?


Any idea of kind of ballpark figures ($$) I would be looking at for this if I did all the work myself?

I would look into the 6sp, VR6 trans as thats where we pull our parts for upgrading our TDI clutches.

Ball park for 300hp probably somewhere around 5-6g if you did it all yourself. The turbo kit and trans are whats going to really cost, closely followed by the intercooler setup.

It would be great to see!

I assume the GT30 you are referencing is the GT30R ball bearing waste-gated turbo. Though ball bearing turbos spool faster, it still wouldn't spool as quickly as a Variable vane turbo.

Some have made comments that polished intake/exhaust ports would be more likely to collect soot, but may result in better performance. However, as a result, you'll have to clean your head.

My recipe:

4340 rods (swaintech coatings) (Carillo, Pauter, Kerma, Red Rotors, Eagle, Crower)
Forged pistons (swaintech coatings) (JE, Wiseco, Arias)
Knife edged and coated crank + windage tray (maybe crank scraper... undecided on this)
Main Bearing Girdle (Eurospec Sport)
A turbo larger than VNT22 (Kermatdi could probably get you what you need).
ARP studs
Larger injectors than R520s (These are not available yet for VE but I know KERMA is working on something).
12mm pumps don't like to rev high, but if you can shift before 4200rpm you could use it. Failure rate seemed high for high rpm use. Could be a result of people using chinese 12mm pump heads.

You can keep the 5-speed and just regear it, cryo treat the internals and add a differential. (NathanMSL did some cool things to his ERF 6-speed)
Front mount intercooler (I would custom make this, it'd be cheaper if you can weld)
Lift pump (in tank or external)

For the amount of power you'll put down, i'd recommend a Stage 3 or 3+ clutch from Spec clutches and some 100mm+ axles. You can get custom made axles from raxles if you really want to.

Of course, custom tuning. At that amount of power and spending money, I would either book Jeff from RC for a couple days to make sure that he gets an awesome tune, or get someone from europe to come over and tune the car on a dyno (Airfare, hotel/place to stay, travel to/from and their hourly rate). Either way, DYNO tune it... Accept nothing less.

This is the basic plan I had when I started building my car, including having aligator come to the U.S. or some other euro tuner to dyno tune my car.

Everything I listed as far as parts are available to purchase today, you would just have to make contact with the companies and spec them the parts that you want. Pauter, Carillo, Eagle and Crower can all make you forged rods... I called them all. Arias can custom make pistons as I talked with them. Get with StingrayRT, he's got custom bowls that have been tested and proven to be more efficient.

300hp reliable will cost you $20k+. I priced it all including machine shop fees, misc supplies, bolts, nuts etc. you'll also need gauges but i'm pretty sure that doesn't even need to be mentioned at this point.

Justler said:

300hp reliable will cost you $20k+. I priced it all including machine shop fees, misc supplies, bolts, nuts etc. you'll also need gauges but i'm pretty sure that doesn't even need to be mentioned at this point.

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Ouch

For those of you who think the TDI is a super fuel saving machine even with power... you're wrong. You won't be getting 50mpg driving a 300hp TDI beast. You'd be lucky to get 30mpg. Which is still good.

A machine like this would be built for closed course racing... Don't expect 11s at the drag strip, unless you want to use nitrous.

The setup I priced did not include nitrous or meth/water injection. I didn't want to run it, as it's an additional fuel cost.

Justler said:

For those of you who think the TDI is a super fuel saving machine even with power... you're wrong. You won't be getting 50mpg driving a 300hp TDI beast. You'd be lucky to get 30mpg. Which is still good.

A machine like this would be built for closed course racing... Don't expect 11s at the drag strip, unless you want to use nitrous.

The setup I priced did not include nitrous or meth/water injection. I didn't want to run it, as it's an additional fuel cost.

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*cough* Steady state at 60 MPH to 70 MPH *cough*

300hp reliable will cost you $20k+. I priced it all including machine shop fees, misc supplies, bolts, nuts etc. you'll also need gauges but i'm pretty sure that doesn't even need to be mentioned at this point.

Click to expand...

Now is this including labor and having a shop do the work? If not, that sounds rather astronomical. Where was most of the cost incurred and approximately how much?

Bob_Fout said:

*cough* Steady state at 60 MPH to 70 MPH *cough*

Click to expand...

60-70mph sustained would be off boost... In order to speed up to pass, or speed up at all, it would require you to put the throttle down and significantly decrease your mileage.

You also need a custom 4bar MAP, or you need to do some creative modifying.

That list is by no way complete, but it's a start. Good luck! I decided to do a different project as TDIClub does not seem conducive to this type of modification.

Justler said:

For those of you who think the TDI is a super fuel saving machine even with power... you're wrong. You won't be getting 50mpg driving a 300hp TDI beast. You'd be lucky to get 30mpg. Which is still good.

A machine like this would be built for closed course racing... Don't expect 11s at the drag strip, unless you want to use nitrous.

The setup I priced did not include nitrous or meth/water injection. I didn't want to run it, as it's an additional fuel cost.

Click to expand...

Would building a 300hp motor on the bottle for track days only be significantly cheaper and more reliable?

... So basically, on the North American TDI platform(s) 300hp is a lot of work, a lot of money, defeats the fuel economy (the reason most buy the car in the first place), and increases your "Car go boom" quotient by a factor of 50. $35k can buy you a more reliable used car with similar(ish) fuel economy and less work/downtime/maintainence/risk.

So, in a round about way, no it's not really attainable. Who has the fastest, worldwide documented on here? Mojo, was it, with the 270hp pd130? Unless you've got a love affair with TDIs, then you probably don't want a 300hp TDI, all things considered.

At 300hp, I wouldn't skimp. You're creating a build engine with expensive parts. Nitrous will also only get you so far in a diesel... too much and you bog the engine. You can't just add more spark like a gas car.

Build it reliable and with quality parts... Otherwise you'll just be unhappy from having to rebuild it often. Nitrous will not make your car reliable =).

So it would ultimately be cheaper to find a wrecked touareg, a welder and go to town?

Or shove a V6 TDI into a Passat and mod the V6 TDI....

PM StingrayRT if you're serious about building this, with his help and KERMA's help, you could build something like this.

I don't believe anyone is building anything to this extent at the moment, that people really know of, besides StingrayRT.

I decided to start a rabbit project with my brother instead, you can put a 1.8T engine in a 2k lb car and be faster than a 3600 lb mk4 300hp tdi for 1/4 of the cost... You also won't have people on tdiclub calling you stupid.

... Yeah, that's a good point. When you get up to a certain point, maybe it's best to jump through all those hoops that you'd need to jump through to just import an A5, A6 or A8 TDI engine and be done with it (twin turbo 4.2L TDI for the A8- Europe only, naturally).

Justler said:

You also won't have people on tdiclub calling you stupid.

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And which jackass was doing that, Justler? I find all the info of those people willing to push these cars farther than ever to be of great value- who was trying to talk you out of pushing your car further?

Oh, and PD TDI rabbits are awesome I'll take two of them, please http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQZ34B1Q5-0

a V10 TDI would be nice in a mk4, but it's longitudinal. You'd need custom mounts, rework the frame rails, cut out the tunnel under the car to fit the trans, fab up the AWD system in the rear. You could always rear mount the engine I guess, though.. there's a few RWD conversion on vortex.

I guess you could do it, but it would require a lot more fabrication skills than you probably have. If you want 300whp and a lot of torque, go VR6 turbo if you must do it in a VW.

A V6 TDI is a good idea, but I believe that engine is also longitudinal.

Justler said:

I decided to start a rabbit project with my brother instead, you can put a 1.8T engine in a 2k lb car and be faster than a 3600 lb mk4 300hp tdi for 1/4 of the cost... You also won't have people on tdiclub calling you stupid.

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Fair enough. You should be struck down for trying to think outside of the box.

Bob_Fout said:

Or shove a V6 TDI into a Passat and mod the V6 TDI....

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Would a 2.5l V6 bolt into a B4 passat tdi?

Justler said:

a V10 TDI would be nice in a mk4, but it's longitudinal. You'd need custom mounts, rework the frame rails, cut out the tunnel under the car to fit the trans, fab up the AWD system in the rear. You could always rear mount the engine I guess, though.. there's a few RWD conversion on vortex.

I guess you could do it, but it would require a lot more fabrication skills than you probably have. If you want 300whp and a lot of torque, go VR6 turbo if you must do it in a VW.

A V6 TDI is a good idea, but I believe that engine is also longitudinal.

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The skills I have, most of the tools I have (minus a plasma), the space to store 2 cars and lack of a ride for that long I don't have. It would definately be a fun endeavor. A B4 2.5l tdi synchro would be fun too....

srt42b said:

The skills I have, most of the tools I have (minus a plasma), the space to store 2 cars and lack of a ride for that long I don't have. It would definately be a fun endeavor. A B4 2.5l tdi synchro would be fun too....

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I would suggest importing a "parts car", and import the engine separately under someone else's name. From there you can take a VIN from a Jetta/Golf here and put it on the car you imported. You would have AWD and a bigger engine =P.

So if I just happen to drive a pd150 golf or other car across the border would they say anything? hmmmm.....

Accross which border? Our continent doesn't share any borders where you could buy a PD150- although yeah, that's definitely a better platform to start with if you're shooting for the moon.

Import a V6 TDI either the 2.5 or 3.0 litre and start from there.. Power is so much easier to make when you have displacement on your side.

Justler said:

For those of you who think the TDI is a super fuel saving machine even with power... you're wrong. You won't be getting 50mpg driving a 300hp TDI beast. You'd be lucky to get 30mpg. Which is still good.

A machine like this would be built for closed course racing... Don't expect 11s at the drag strip, unless you want to use nitrous.

The setup I priced did not include nitrous or meth/water injection. I didn't want to run it, as it's an additional fuel cost.

Click to expand...

Actually I'd bet if you could stay off the pedal, mileage won't be nearly that bad. I know several high horsepower 1.8t's that get mid 20's in the city with light throttle. I also know a 800hp cummins dodge that gets stock like mileage off the gas.

Another benefit is being able to brew your own fuel.

Ixna the V6's, V10's or V8's your pretty much stuck with a 1.9 or 2.0 tdi for the transverse cars.

You can harden and cryo all the stock parts for 300hp. you can do the whole motor(cryo) for 500.00. .330 nozzles honed and treated and a custom injection pump(co. in germany makes em starting at 7k). What kind of racing are you planning? The driveline is where its gets expensive. Build your driveline to support 400hp/760tq then start on your motor. It definately can be done! Good luck

im sure it could be done with the 2.0 16v tdi engine. alh i wont believe it till i see it. and even then how long is it really ganna last. ur tranny wont last u a month thats for sure . vw trannys cannot take the beating

HO'OLAKO said:

The driveline is where its gets expensive. Build your driveline to support 400hp/760tq then start on your motor. It definately can be done! Good luck

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Is this possible? (I'm not nay-saying, I really want to know )