Need some diesel truck opinions

1fastredsc

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Apr 12, 2004
Location
Cranberry Twp, PA
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2006 TDI
My dad wants a diesel truck, and asked my opinion on the current line-ups of diesels. Which is the best in terms of long term value, something that is reliable and worth the money? Any articles that point to a technical comarison would be much appreciated.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
When you say current I assume you mean new. In which case the best choice in my opinion is the Dodge Ram with the Cummins ISB and the heavy duty 6 speed manual transmission. Do NOT get the autobox, and the best version of the truck is the lesser trim (meaning manual windows, locks, etc.)

If for whatever reason cannot or will not row his own gears, then I'd go with the GM truck with the Isuzu/Duramax engine and Allison automatic.

Right now, sad to say, I would NOT recommend the Ford. While I think the truck overall is not bad, given the current trouble-prone diesel engines I cannot recommend them. Sad because the old 7.3L was such a good engine.

Keep in mind though that all these trucks are really for pretty heavy duty use. If you do not really need something to pull 10,000 pounds+, then you'd be better off to just get the standard engine even if it does have spark plugs. Otherwise it is just not worth the premium price.
 

crazyrunner33

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Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
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'10 Golf(bought back)
The current dodge now has a 6.7 which is basically a bored out version of the 5.9 liter. I would fully recommend the automatic over the manual, the 2007.5 models are now avalibile with the Aisin 6 speed auto transmission which is similar to the Allison transmission.

I don't know too much about the Duramax except for the fact that they have the Allison transmission which has been a huge success.

I agree with oil hammer about staying away from Ford. They recently recalled all of the new 6.4s because they would be shooting flames out of the tail pipe at idle:eek:. They reach their peak torque at about 2000 rpm. The Dodge makes its peak torque at 1400 rpm, and the 5.9 reaches its peak torque at 1600 rpm.

Ford and Dodge are also about to come out with diesels in their half ton platforms also. I know the Dodge will be avalible with either a 4.2 liter v6 that has close to 500 lbs of torque and the 5.6 v8 will make 600 lbs of torque and they are both made by Cummins. The Ford will be avalible with a diesel engine that was used in the range rover except with an extra two cylinders.
 

Oil_Burner

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Dec 2, 2000
Location
Issaquah, Washington, USA
I'd look for a 1998 (or earlier) Dodge with a 12V Cummins and a NV4500 5 speed. If driven correctly (read 60mph) they can get as high as 26mpg.

A little correction. Currently ONLY the 3500 chasis cab Dodge is available with the 6.7 liter Cummins. The standard 2500/3500's still have the 5.9 liter. Next year they all will have the 6.7.

I'd only go automatic when the Aisin is available. The standard auto Dodge has offered all these years is nothing to feel great about considering the torque potential of that engine.

You should be able to find a relatively nice unit for between 8 and 15 grand. That's a lot of truck for the money.
 

crazyrunner33

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NC
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'10 Golf(bought back)
Oil_Burner said:
I'd look for a 1998 (or earlier) Dodge with a 12V Cummins and a NV4500 5 speed. If driven correctly (read 60mph) they can get as high as 26mpg.
Agree, the 47RE was the worst transmission ever for a heavy duty (the white truck in my sig is on it's 3rd, the first one was the stock transmission and that went before 30,000. The second was an ATS transmission and that went because the stealership installed the transmission, ATS still honored its warranty and a different stealership installed it but we went on a 17 hour trip to have Clint Cannon himself serivce the transmission and make sure it was also installed right. While we were there we spent a little too much time drolling at the trucks he modified and we ended up bringing home a new turbo for the truck w/us, and the edge juice w/attitude, and injectors.)

After we did those upgrades we are now seeing around 24-28 mpg. Usually around 22-25 when having some fun with the go pedal, around 28 when babying it, and around 18-22 when driving like you stole it.

The thing I enjoy the most is that you barley need to touch the pedal to get that thing up to speed. Oh and also, these trucks handle a little bit differently than our vdubs:rolleyes:.
 

1fastredsc

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Joined
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Location
Cranberry Twp, PA
TDI
2006 TDI
I'd read that the duramax engine suffers from bad fuel economy, not sure if that's an old tale or if it applies to the new rigs.
On some of the Dodge truck websites dudes are popping up with the 6.7's, apparantly they are 2007.5's although you can still readily find the 5.9's of early 2007 model year.
As far as the trans, auto is a must, because of my mother. And he's looking to comfortably toe project cars that we mess with, and maybe even campers but i'm not sure about that last one.
 

jarheadatunm

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Location
Monterey, CA
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03 Jetta
99/2000 Ford Powerstroke. Forged rods compared to the later years. Avoid the 6-leaker... The jury is still out on the 6.4L (first year run)
As for the Dodge and Duramax, they are both good products. My father has the 600 ft/lbs Cummins and it does what he needs (still complains about the economy) I have 2 good friends that have the Duramax/Allison setups. Again, a good setup. So it all boils down to what you like. I have had my Ford for going on 6 years and it has been great (2000 F250 with 7.3 and 4r100) I would like to take a Cummins motor, mate it to the Allison and put it in a Superduty truck. If I had to make a recommendation for you, I would point you at the Ford lineup.
 

1fastredsc

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Joined
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Cranberry Twp, PA
TDI
2006 TDI
You know the more i read about the new duramax/allison combo the more i like it. I'm still terrified of the ford because of it's problems during the 6.0 era of powerstrokes (so i read anyway). I think i'll recommend the duramax to him.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Location
Madison WI
TDI
96 Powerstroke Diesel
jarheadatunm said:
99/2000 Ford Powerstroke. Forged rods compared to the later years. Avoid the 6-leaker... The jury is still out on the 6.4L (first year run)
Great minds think alike... I've got 300k on my 96 stroke... Averages 20mpg over that 300k..
 

jimzdat

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Feb 6, 2006
Location
Belpre, OH
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14 Jetta TDI
Can't speak for long term since I just bought it 2 months ago, but I am quite happy with my Duramax. As far as economy, I drove it from Dallas, TX to Belpre, OH the day I bought it (saved almost 10 grand by buying in TX)--averaged 16.5 MPG on the trip.
Not outstanding numbers, but not too bad IMO for a truck that weighs almost 4 tons empty (2003 Silverado 3500 Crew Cab, Longbed, Dually)

 

fastvicar

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Lancaster, PA, USA
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1996 Passat, Indian Red
I sincerely believe that Ford builds the strongest chassis. GM usually has the nicest-finished interiors. Dodge still has the best engine (IMO). You must decide what is most important to you, since there is more to a truck than just it's engine.

Having said that, if I were forced to choose tomorrow, I would order the Dodge.
 

crazyrunner33

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NC
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'10 Golf(bought back)
Here is a place that helps you to convert a ford to a cummins. Now we need to find a way to get the interior from a chevy heavy duty into the ford:D.
 
Joined
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Location
Madison WI
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96 Powerstroke Diesel
Ford only converted from the 7.3 for emissions reasons... They've been building the same basic engine for almost 30 years..... If you want an engine that'll last forever, find yourself a nice 7.3 super duty... The Cummins is a great engine, the only problem is the fact it's in a Dodge.... Dodge has a great truck E X C E P T for the tranny......They through a Dana 80 in the rear, a Dana 60 up front, a good New Process transfer case, their only problem is they F'd up and put their own tranny in the middle....
 

crazyrunner33

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'10 Golf(bought back)
Lightning Struck said:
Ford only converted from the 7.3 for emissions reasons... They've been building the same basic engine for almost 30 years..... If you want an engine that'll last forever, find yourself a nice 7.3 super duty... The Cummins is a great engine, the only problem is the fact it's in a Dodge.... Dodge has a great truck E X C E P T for the tranny......They through a Dana 80 in the rear, a Dana 60 up front, a good New Process transfer case, their only problem is they F'd up and put their own tranny in the middle....
And they have alot of electrical problems, and you have to really be on the look out for rust, especially on the lower part of the doors in the second generation Dodge. They fixed the tranny problem for the 07.5's, they offer the option to have an Aisin tranny instead.
 

Number6

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Mar 30, 2007
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Madison, Wisconsin
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98 Jetta
I have a 95 Dodge with the Cummins 12 valve, a 3/4 ton 4wd with automatic, 180K miles. Gets around 22 mpg summer, possibly better on the highway, but I haven't taken long trips in it. Except did 19mpg hauling a 98 Jetta 500 miles. Yeah, they rust, I've had to get a new box and doors for it. If the new GM diesels are good, that's a change long time comming, imho. I would avoid their older models, don't know when their reliability improved. There may be some advantage to the Cummins 6cyl vs. a v-8 diesel, just in terms of servicablity -- more room under the hood.
 

crazyrunner33

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'10 Golf(bought back)
Oil_Burner said:
A little correction. Currently ONLY the 3500 chasis cab Dodge is available with the 6.7 liter Cummins. The standard 2500/3500's still have the 5.9 liter. Next year they all will have the 6.7.
A little correction to the correction. I was just at the dealership and they had a 2500 and a 3500 with the beds that had the 6.7 with the Aisin and they were 2007 models. I had one of the sales representatives start it and I was amazed at how quiet it was. I think its actually quieter then my Jetta, I also video taped it if anyone is interested.
 

mavapa

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rome, ga
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Based on a little research at the Dodge site, it appears the both the 5.9 and 6.7 Cummins engines are available on a 2500, along with the 6-speed automatic.
 

crazyrunner33

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NC
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'10 Golf(bought back)
Some of the 2007 models still have the 5.9's in them, but they offically changed their productions on January first to the 6.7's.

A good place to read up on the ram with the cummins would be Turbo Diesel Register and another great place is Diesel Ram. I was reading in the Diesel Ram forums and there was a guy claiming that Dodge was trying to buy back his 2007 with the 5.9 in exchange for a 2007 with a 6.7, I found that to be very interesting.
 

mavapa

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rome, ga
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2001 golf
crazyrunner, it's odd that the Dodge site lets you "build" your truck with the 5.9 as an option. From reading at the TDR I had assumed that you wouldn't be able to order one with the 5.9 after some time in the fall of last year. I had assumed, as you say, that the 6.7 would be required to meet new diesel emission standards. Is Dodge assuming there are still some 5.9s on the lots?
 

Wyatt Earp

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Nanaimo, BC, Canada
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There are a few 5.9L left but most now are 6.7L trucks. The new 6.7L is like the other 6.4 and 6.6L trucks not trouble free. if you can look for a 7.3L ford or a 5.9L dodge and you'll be ok.
 

crazyrunner33

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'10 Golf(bought back)
I was surprised to see that on there website also. The last time I was at the dealer about a month ago there were 5.9's, yesterday was the first time I ever saw the 6.7.
 
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FormerOwner

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Alabama
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2013 Passat TDI SE 6spd; Former Owner 02 MkIV wagon
I own a 2002 Dodge 5.9L 24V with 125K. Just broken in perhaps. I've put about 5K on it since I bought it in January. I have the NV4500 5 speed manual. Solid transmission and motor combo. My truck is bone stock. 235 HP/460 lb./ft. torque per Cummins' specs.

I have had to buy new tires for it. I chose Goodyear's 265 R16/75 Highway tire. I've also had to buy a rebuilt VP44 injector pump from Midwest Fuel Injection ($1,000 + or -). I also went ahead and bought a FASS pusher pump setup for $417 from Midwest Fuel Injection.

I absolutely LOVE my truck. I don't even notice my 17.5' G3 Pro 175 bass boat behind me when I'm on the road. I have 4.10 gears in and a 2" lift in her... 4WD too. I avg. 16-18 in town and I can get up to 20 MPG highway @ 55-60 mph. When I run over 60 mph, I avg. 17-18 mpg.

I'm all for your dad buying a Dodge Cummins. I've never regretted the purchase. I paid $10,300 out the door... I've only invested about $2,000 in parts and tires... and routine maintenance issues. I have virtually a new truck.

I'd rather be Cummin' than Strokin'
 

FormerOwner

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2013 Passat TDI SE 6spd; Former Owner 02 MkIV wagon
I am Jesse James

Well, here is the breakdown...

He wanted $16,000. He told me that sometimes the truck ran great and sometimes it spittered and sputtered... which I diagnosed as being a bad fuel injector pump. I verified this by pulling the codes. On this model, you switch the ignition on and off 3x's and the ECU gives you the trouble codes. I researched the codes on www.dieselram.com and the truck's issue was verified. I knew that the VP44 injector pump made by Bosch had issues, courtesy of forum members on www.dieselram.com ,which are due to a bad lift pump that lifts the fuel out of the tank. He also told me that he spent $150 parts & labor to have a new lift pump put in. The only problem is that when you starve the VP44, it too becomes toast. I bought a rebuilt VP44 from www.mwfi.com , along with a FASS HPFP 95 GPH. That total was $1,400.

I offered him my '00 Ford Ranger XLT for $3,000 (it had over 105K) and also offered him $10 K for the Dodge. He said "deal", but you pay the $300 sales tax. So, in essence, I got the truck minus a trade and also an allowance for the injector pump issue and my time/labor to fix other issues that popped up (valve adjustment, oil/filter change, new tires).

$16,000 Offer Price
-$3,000 Ford trade-in
-----------------------
$13,000 bal.
-$1,400 Injector pump and FASS install
--------------------------------
$11,600 bal.
$1,300 discount that I insisted upon for my time, parts, and labor...
--------------------------------------------------
$10,300 Dodge price (tax included)


I think that I got a good deal... Lemme know whatcha think.

Shawn
 
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MayorDJQ

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Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
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'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
I'd take an inline-6 Diesel over a V8 Diesel any day. V8s in general tend put a lot more stress on the main bearings.

Also, the Cummins engine sounds a lot nicer than the others. Powerstrokes have a tinny sound, pre-Duramax GMs have a random rattling sound. Duramax's are too quiet.
 

greenskeeper

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Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Well, here is the breakdown...

He wanted $16,000. He told me that sometimes the truck ran great and sometimes it spittered and sputtered... which I diagnosed as being a bad fuel injector pump. I verified this by pulling the codes. On this model, you switch the ignition on and off 3x's and the ECU gives you the trouble codes. I researched the codes on www.dieselram.com and the truck's issue was verified. I knew that the VP44 injector pump made by Bosch had issues, courtesy of forum members on www.dieselram.com ,which are due to a bad lift pump that lifts the fuel out of the tank. He also told me that he spent $150 parts & labor to have a new lift pump put in. The only problem is that when you starve the VP44, it too becomes toast. I bought a rebuilt VP44 from www.mwfi.com , along with a FASS HPFP 95 GPH. That total was $1,400.

I offered him my '00 Ford Ranger XLT for $3,000 (it had over 105K) and also offered him $10 K for the Dodge. He said "deal", but you pay the $300 sales tax. So, in essence, I got the truck minus a trade and also an allowance for the injector pump issue and my time/labor to fix other issues that popped up (valve adjustment, oil/filter change, new tires).

$16,000 Offer Price
-$3,000 Ford trade-in
-----------------------
$13,000 bal.
-$1,400 Injector pump and FASS install
--------------------------------
$11,600 bal.
$1,300 discount that I insisted upon for my time, parts, and labor...
--------------------------------------------------
$10,300 Dodge price (tax included)


I think that I got a good deal... Lemme know whatcha think.

Shawn
So you really paid $16000 for the truck, not $10300.

I could get a new F-250 "out the door" for $10300 as well, if only I had enough trade-ins!
 

Snosport

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
TDI
2004 Passat
We are considering replacing the our 97 Suburban with a Diesel pickup mainly to improve mileage when towing. My brother is a mechanic and has some experience with the diesel pickups. He recommended the Dodge over the Ford or GM. His concern with the GM was head gaskets going at around 150,000. He claims that the Cummins offers the best fuel economy of the 3. And everyone seems to advise to stay away from the newer Fords.

I will be looking at a 2001 Dodge 4wd extended cab shortbox diesel pickup this weekend. It has 60,000 miles and spent its winters down south so it wasn't exposed to road salt. The asking price is $17,000.

This is the first time I have looked at the Dodge pickups. Just wondering if anyone has any advice on what to look for.

Also what should I expect for mileage?

I stopped at a couple Dodge dealers this week and they have some pretty hefty incentives on the new ones. One dealer was dropping over $10k off of the sticker. No haggle prices were around $35,000.

My concerns with the new ones are that I have heard that the mileage is down. Anyone here have experience with this?
 

crazyrunner33

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Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
What are you going to be pulling? We pull a 40 foot rv and we are currently getting about 15 mpg, the worst we have seen it was about 12 mpg. But keep in mind we added the Edge Juice with Attitude, an Aurora 2000 turbo, and some Edge Jammer injectors, and a FASS lift pump. Before the upgrades we were getting about 10 mpg when we were towing and the power was ok, it was harder to maintain speed going up hills. Now the truck has plenty of power to spare when towing.

If your curious about mileage with an empty bed the truck would get about 18 mpg stock. Last week my Dad hit a deer with the white Jeep so he has been using the truck alot. He filled up today and calculated it by the tank and he averaged about 25 mpg.
 
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