www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2014 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You



Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI 101

TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:12   #16
mparker326
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid
But at this point this matters not as a 2002 is well into its' 4th year if not into its' 5th so it is at the end of its' usable life .
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrGutWrench
I wonder why VW publishes this and makes it clear in the UK
How about some proof where VW says this?

Here is what DB thinks on the time vs. mileage debate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire
So show me where there is rubber aka Latex in a TDI timing belt...

Your full of $hit that there is ANY TIME LIMIT ON ANY TDI TIMING BELT.

100,000 miles REGARDLESS of time for the 2003+ timing belt systems OR those ALH's which have been updated to the 2003 standards.

There is a shelf life imposed on belts prior to use, If I recall correctly it's 7 years BEFORE the belt is put into service.

Again timing belts are changed REGARDLESS of time in use and mileage is the ONLY factor in a change interval.

DB
__________________
2002 Golf GLS TDI
mparker326 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:32   #17
rotarykid
Veteran Member
 
rotarykid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
Fuel Economy: 64 .1city @ 30-60 mph/ 52-53 @ 70-85 mph hyway ( 52 to just under 60 normal around town)on LSD
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mparker326
How about some proof where VW says this?

Here is what DB thinks on the time vs. mileage debate:


Heat cyles over the age rating time frame are the main issue related to .


Colder climates are harder on the T-belt , wider range of temp changes for each cycle . A belt can safely sit on a shelf somewhere for a long time years even @ room temp with no extreme changes in temp before use .

Are you going to argue that tires don't degrade over an extended time ?? The same materials that go into a tire go into a T-belt . Tire ages all you get normally is a flat if your lucky , T-belt ages you get a bill $$$$$$ .


It's your head , have at it if you wish . But not me .
__________________
More diesels than I can list
rotarykid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:47   #18
meganuke
 
meganuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: VA/CT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid
If you put 40k a year on a manual trans car I would guess you could if you chose safely go to the 120k mark on one of these updated T-belts , better tensioner.
Tell that to the people that need new heads at 105K miles. To my knowledge, the tensioner hasn't changed, it's the belt and the large roller. Some 2003's, despite the manual claiming 100K intervals, actually had the smaller 80K bearing in the large roller. The rollers are the common failure point, not the actual belt or tensioner (assuming it was properly torqued).
meganuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:54   #19
ymz
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Between Toronto & Montreal
Fuel Economy: 5.3 l/100 km (at 115 km/h)
Default

Keith, the tensioner changed for the 2002 model year ("N" suffix)... you can't get the older tensioners any more, even if some dealers are still selling the older "D" suffix belts...

As for the idlers... on both my first and 2nd timing belts, it was the small lower idler that had far too much play in the bearings... first one changed at 95,000 miles, the 2nd at 101,000 miles... 95% highway driving... I'll change this one at around 90,000 miles...

Yuri.
ymz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:35   #20
rotarykid
Veteran Member
 
rotarykid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
Fuel Economy: 64 .1city @ 30-60 mph/ 52-53 @ 70-85 mph hyway ( 52 to just under 60 normal around town)on LSD
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by meganuke
Tell that to the people that need new heads at 105K miles. To my knowledge, the tensioner hasn't changed, it's the belt and the large roller. Some 2003's, despite the manual claiming 100K intervals, actually had the smaller 80K bearing in the large roller. The rollers are the common failure point, not the actual belt or tensioner (assuming it was properly torqued).
Again I would not ever exceed the mileage rating , as I wrote if you chose . And I would never suggest going beyond the rated max mile rating .

But if you put 100k on an engine in less than 3 years there are going to be parts in the system that might not be as worn out as they would be under 15k a year operation .

To me it's a non-issue issue as I normally change mine far short of the maximum rated distance due age catching up with me .
__________________
More diesels than I can list
rotarykid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:36   #21
Powder Hound
Veteran Member
 
Powder Hound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Conkud, New Hampshiyuh, USA
Fuel Economy: pretty freakin' good.
Default

The most recent tensioner has a stronger spring in it. The longer mileage belts are thicker and stronger (more reinforcement fibers) and therefore stiffer. Stiffer requires more spring in the tensioner to maintain its ability to keep a slack loop from allowing skipped teeth.
__________________
You always pay for what you get. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
It is called dope because it does make you dumb.
'00 4dr 5-sp white over black Golf: Sprint 520 nozzles, ABS+ASR, Koni FSD enhanced suspension, vented hood; '00 2dr 5-sp silver over black Golf. DG 5-sp short shifter. Nuthin' special yet.
VW does not build or sell cars. VW builds and sells mobile DIY kits disguised as cars.
Powder Hound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:55   #22
mparker326
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid
Heat cyles over the age rating time frame are the main issue related to .


Colder climates are harder on the T-belt , wider range of temp changes for each cycle . A belt can safely sit on a shelf somewhere for a long time years even @ room temp with no extreme changes in temp before use .

Are you going to argue that tires don't degrade over an extended time ?? The same materials that go into a tire go into a T-belt . Tire ages all you get normally is a flat if your lucky , T-belt ages you get a bill $$$$$$ .


It's your head , have at it if you wish . But not me .
I'm asking for VW or Bently documentation that belts should be changed on time basis vs. mileage basis. Does this exist?

VW is very specific on brake fluid changes every two years regardless of miles. Why wouldn't they be specific on a timing belt?
__________________
2002 Golf GLS TDI
mparker326 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 13:00   #23
paramedick
 
paramedick's Avatar
Default

It's not VW, it's the belt manufacturer. Timing belts come with a "use by" date on the box.
__________________
Selected TDI Repair Services available. No greasecars, please.
To contact me: E mail = quick answer via iPhone. Click on username for E mail address. PMs are turned off!!!
An all TDI Family!!
paramedick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 13:27   #24
mparker326
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paramedick
It's not VW, it's the belt manufacturer. Timing belts come with a "use by" date on the box.
According to DB, "use by" means you must put it in a car before that date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire
There is a shelf life imposed on belts prior to use, If I recall correctly it's 7 years BEFORE the belt is put into service.
How as a consumer would I know that the timing belt on my new car wasn't bought in a 500,000 lot 3 years ago and sat around in some factory parts bin and my car happened to get belt number 499,999? So by that account I would have to change my belt in 2 years?
__________________
2002 Golf GLS TDI
mparker326 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 16:15   #25
chewbacca
Veteran Member
 
chewbacca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Iowa
Default

Holy crap guys! Chewbacca is both scared and confused. I own 2, year 2002 TDI's both with original TB's, both automatics, and approx 62-64000 miles on each. Bought the cars new in 2003. I was planning on going to visit Deaf Bug this summer with two trunks full of TB kits and thought I was going to be changing them out early. Like I was being uber-cautious.

So which is it? My Bentley says 80,000 miles regardless of tranny. And, here is a quote from the sticky for Newbies,

"The new timing belt for ALH engines began to be used late in the 2001 model year (ALH engine number 500,000 and higher); the longer change intervals began to be put in the maintenance checklists in 2002. The larger roller began to be used in 2003."

What is this sticker under the hood and what should it say if I have either the good or bad TB? Do I need to park our cars until the belts get changed?
chewbacca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 16:41   #26
TornadoRed
Veteran Member
 
TornadoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
Fuel Economy: 52/41/36 (510k miles)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewbacca
So which is it? My Bentley says 80,000 miles regardless of tranny. And, here is a quote from the sticky for Newbies,

"The new timing belt for ALH engines began to be used late in the 2001 model year (ALH engine number 500,000 and higher); the longer change intervals began to be put in the maintenance checklists in 2002. The larger roller began to be used in 2003."

What is this sticker under the hood and what should it say if I have either the good or bad TB? Do I need to park our cars until the belts get changed?
You have the correct information. The change-over to the extended-life TB occurred somewhere around April 2001, during the 2001 model year. Anyone who says they were still putting the short-life TB in 2002 model TDIs is mistaken.

If you want to know with absolute certainty what belt you have, visit Runonbeer's website, look at the photos of both kinds, and compare to your car(s). www.runonbeer.com

The reason for a shorter replacement interval for the older belt when installed in an AT model was because of the 11mm injection pump that put more stress directly on the belt. It had nothing to do with slippage in the transmission increasing the number of engine revolutions.
__________________
'03 Golf with 510k miles: Kerma Bosio PP520, GT1749VB, Passenger Performance 2.5" DP, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Koni Reds, Recaros, Akebono pads/Zimmerman rotors, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Neuspeed, always Mobil 1 TDT
Foobert's TDI Hunt -- all Craigslist TDI ads nationwide -- TDI Trusted Mechanics by jwlionking
TornadoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 17:53   #27
chewbacca
Veteran Member
 
chewbacca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Iowa
Default

Thanks for the link for the pics TR. By the way, my ALH code on the TB cover is 499 266, the date is 7/17/01 and the belt by visual inspection is definitely the 80,000 mile belt (has the criss crosses) and appears to be in good condition. So, what's up with the posts citing engine codes lower than 500 001 having the old belt? Mine looks nothing like the older style shown in run on beer's photo.
chewbacca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 18:04   #28
TornadoRed
Veteran Member
 
TornadoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
Fuel Economy: 52/41/36 (510k miles)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewbacca
Thanks for the link for the pics TR. By the way, my ALH code on the TB cover is 499 266, the date is 7/17/01 and the belt by visual inspection is definitely the 80,000 mile belt (has the criss crosses) and appears to be in good condition. So, what's up with the posts citing engine codes lower than 500 001 having the old belt? Mine looks nothing like the older style shown in run on beer's photo.
I think the rule was that those over 500000 had the new belt, and not that those under 499999 had the old belt. Your post confirms, at any rate, that the switch was slightly before engine number 500000.

What is your vehicle's build date? (on the driver's side B-pillar)
__________________
'03 Golf with 510k miles: Kerma Bosio PP520, GT1749VB, Passenger Performance 2.5" DP, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Koni Reds, Recaros, Akebono pads/Zimmerman rotors, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Neuspeed, always Mobil 1 TDT
Foobert's TDI Hunt -- all Craigslist TDI ads nationwide -- TDI Trusted Mechanics by jwlionking
TornadoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 19:50   #29
chewbacca
Veteran Member
 
chewbacca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Iowa
Default

Build date 9/01 on the Jetta. I'll check the Golf if it makes it back this weekend.
chewbacca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2007, 20:15   #30
ymz
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Between Toronto & Montreal
Fuel Economy: 5.3 l/100 km (at 115 km/h)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewbacca
what's up with the posts citing engine codes lower than 500 001 having the old belt?.
Just go and get your timing belt changed by your friendly local VW dealer and you'll find that they will probably install the OLD style belt, because that's what's in the book...

Yuri.
ymz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2014
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2013, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.15898 seconds with 9 queries
[Output: 130.70 Kb. compressed to 109.09 Kb. by saving 21.61 Kb. (16.54%)]