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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old December 16th, 2000, 19:34   #1
SkyPup
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Default On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Data From National Petrochemical and Refiners Association of the United States (2000)

Highway- regulated since 1993; 500 ppm Sulphur; 40 cetane
California Diesel- Highway and nonroad - Performance based 45 cetane low aromatics, low Sulphur <300ppm
Nonroad Diesel - 5000 ppm Sulphur
Heating Oil- 5000 ppm Sulphur
Aviation Turbine - 3000 ppm Sulphur
European Diesel- 50 ppm by 2005, in place earlier some areas (UK, Germany, Sweden, etc.)
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Old December 16th, 2000, 21:08   #2
DaveFromSiberia
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Yeah... Tractor Fuel (read: Off-road) generally has higher sulfur contents than On-Road. Higher sulfur is harder on injection pumps and injectors, but there's a slight power increase.

Or so I'm told.

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Old December 17th, 2000, 00:00   #3
chopchop
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Ah, I see what you mean now, Skypup..... We call the agricultural stuff "Red Diesel" here, because it's dyed red. It costs about one third of the price of road diesel, but if you're caught with it in your car on the road, the authorities come down on you like a ton of bricks. The dye they use will remain there even after several flushings with ordinary diesel. Random checks are carried out.

Don't know if it's identical to the ordinary stuff and thus low-sulphur nowadays (I suspect not, otherwise the older farm vehicles' injection pumps would probably be prematurely knackered)- other than just the dye, but I'm sure some UK member will know.
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Old December 17th, 2000, 06:02   #4
Tom Servo
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

I wonder if anyone in the US has used off-road Diesel in their TDi before? We don't have those spot checks, as far as I know.

I only know of one station in my entire city which sells off-road Diesel, and it's back behind the station with the kerosene and regular Diesel, where the clerck can't see it. I even thought about trying to sneak a few gallons in, just to see what would happen... But that high sulphur content will possibly keep me from doing it.

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Old December 17th, 2000, 09:07   #5
dparnell
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

GREAT post, I have always wondered about the cetane value in CA---I already knew the sulpher was low. Too bad they don't sell TDIs here anymore---ironic.
With my additive package, I should be running 50+ cetane !!!

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Old December 17th, 2000, 18:42   #6
lifer
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Tom : Dont put the off road fuil in your tdi.Last summer i was on a trip and i pulled into a large station to fill up. They had about 12 diesel pumps after i filled up i went i to pay and it was so cheap i thought there must be something wrong. when i went back to the car i looked at the pump and in small letters down below it said off road diesel. My car ran rough,smoked a lot and my fuil milage went from 44 to 33mpg. I run off road fuil in my heavy equip.and i buy amaco premier off rd.it is low sulfer.
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Old December 18th, 2000, 03:14   #7
Ric Woodruff
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same???

Neither are Curley, Shemp, Curley Joe, or Joe (Besser), but I still watch the Three Stooges, no matter which one is the 3rd stooge.

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Old December 18th, 2000, 04:48   #8
SkyPup
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Which Stooge do you like to emulate the most?
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Old December 18th, 2000, 05:10   #9
Ric Woodruff
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

CURLEY, OF COURSE!
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Old December 18th, 2000, 05:50   #10
Fimum Fit
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Hi, DaveFromSiberia! I'm originally from Royalton, and some of my cousins still live around Foley -- various Wisnieskis and Barons (some of the latter spell it "Barron" or even the original Polish "Baran" (means "Ram," like those St. Louis football Rams) -- but I'm still Jim Baron. Been stuck down here for 30 years now, but hope to head back in retirement in 4 years and devolve back into a hunter - gatherer in the North Woods.
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Old December 18th, 2000, 09:47   #11
JeffT
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

All the high sulfur #2 should be dyed blue, that's fuel oil and off road use. The low sulfur #2 diesel is clear and the low sulfur off-road #2 is dyed red.

But it also depends on your jurisdiction as to the the dying scheme used. In some areas all off-road stuff is blue or red. Also, just because its red or blue doesn't mean its different from what you are pumping into your car, it can, and probably IS the same stuff depending on what part of the country you are in.

[This message has been edited by JeffT (edited December 18, 2000).]
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Old December 18th, 2000, 10:03   #12
shirish_bh
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

DavefromSiberia,
I think that the high sulphur fuel is a very good lubricant. High sulphur = good lubricity.
This fuel is good for the pump in terms of pump durability.
However, high sulphur means corrosion for the cylinder and valves and it is also bad for the CAT converter.
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Old December 18th, 2000, 18:51   #13
DaveFromSiberia
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Fimum, yeah, hello! Actually I'm closer to Morrill than Foley, so I'm right in Royalton's neck of the woods. More Urbanskis and Brennys around by me!

Blue Diesel. Never seen, never heard of it. Is it a N.E.-only fuel? I've seen red (dyed), and clear/slightly yellow, but never blue. I don't see why it couldn't exist!

My experience in using off-road fuel in cars is a big no-no. Here, the DOT comes down on you with fines if you're caught running even a hint of red in your diesel. A friend of mine used a few tanks of off-road, because he said it pulled harder and better, but the DOT caught him and fined him $2000. But! They only pull over pickups and trucks. They'd never think of pulling over a VW Jetta, Golf, or especially not a Beetle!! So you could probably get away with it.

Shirish, your point very well could be true; I'm not sure if sulfur is harsh or not, but I based my assumptions on the fact that folks who run high-sulfur fuel have injector nozzle problems sooner than those who don't, and many cutting & machining oils are sulfur-based.
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Old December 18th, 2000, 19:32   #14
dparnell
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Default Re: On Road and Off Road Diesel and Fuel Oil Are NOT the Same

Diesel blue is for locomotives and some ships---bunker oil---high sulpher and not as refined. I think Peter uses it in his car judging from the smoke he puts out !!!

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