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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)

Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old February 21st, 2007, 06:08   #16
IndigoBlueWagon
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On an '04 I'd just replace struts, strut mounts, and shocks. I wouldn't do the shock mounts unless you have over 100K on the car, but that's my opinion. Sway bar bushings often are creaky but you can replace them anytime.

I'm going further on my '02 at 150K and putting in new control arms with TT bushings in the Spring, I've got TT rear subframe bushings, and may even try to find a TT roadster subframe with the outriggers for the braces. My objective: Keep the platform stiff and make the suspension soft so it doesn't skid across bumps, punish me and the car, but still maintains geometry.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 06:32   #17
jollyGreenGiant
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Does anyone know if the Shine rear swaybar is available for a B4?
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Old February 21st, 2007, 07:17   #18
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The Shine Sway Bar looks really neat. Is it beneficial for a Jetta or for a Golf, or both? It seems most of the discussion is for Golfs.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 07:27   #19
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Indigo has a Jetta Wagon, I have a Golf. We're both rather pleased with the results
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Old February 21st, 2007, 07:28   #20
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Same difference. I have them on two Jettas, an A3 and an A4. It's great on both.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 07:32   #21
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I've heard numerous reports of the shine bar breaking. My personal mechanic recomends the Neuspeed bar which is what we are both running.

I am running the Koni FSD + Eibach Pro-kit System, and I'm loving it.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 07:56   #22
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Peter, Is it the same bar for the A3 and A4, do you know? I'm unsure of any specific dimensional differences between the rear beam on each, my guess it that the bar might be universal to both and to the B4 as well. I'm trying to plan a future suspension upgrade for my B4V.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 08:03   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanMSL
I've heard numerous reports of the shine bar breaking. My personal mechanic recomends the Neuspeed bar which is what we are both running.

I am running the Koni FSD + Eibach Pro-kit System, and I'm loving it.
A handful of early Shine bars had some issues when installed with stock suspension, allowing more flex than the bar was intended to withstand. (The bar was developed as an integrated component of Shine's "real street" complete suspension kit.) The bar was revised accordingly, and Dick Shine stands behind his product.

Also, be sure not to confuse any Shine reliability issues with those of the similar in design but much cheaper O-bar.

More traditional RSB's have issues as well - routine replacement of worn/squeaky bushings, rusted end links, and the loss of ground clearance are all considerations.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 08:17   #24
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Quote:
A handful of early Shine bars had some issues when installed with stock suspension, allowing more flex than the bar was intended to withstand. (The bar was developed as an integrated component of Shine's "real street" complete suspension kit.)
Good point, about the shine bar and the stock suspension. Is this still the case, that the shine bar will break if not used with the appropriate springs and struts? Things will break if used incorrectly no matter what it is.


Quote:
More traditional RSB's have issues as well - routine replacement of worn/squeaky bushings, rusted end links, and the loss of ground clearance are all considerations.
Very true, the neuspeed takes away some clearance right at the wheel due to its attachment method.

The point is, to each his own. Make sure to choose your components wisely and take into consideration all variables.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 14:57   #25
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I've had my Shine bar in my car with stock springs (HDs, Reds, now FSDs) since about 85K. And mine is the 'old' less sturdy style. So after 60K it's fine. And I am not the most gentle driver. I had a conversation about this with Eli at Shine while he was still there and I think he said they replaced 2 bars, but swapped out some others that hadn't broken because they found a welding defect in one batch. Since then they've made the bar a lot stronger. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 18:03   #26
peter pyce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon
....and despite what you might read on vortex, the car does not oversteer......

There are situations at which it will actually over steer and quite badly and quite suddenly! It depends what you do with that car. and no matter how good you are, there are panic situations which you can not predict, neither prevent, at which the car is asked to perform at its limits (or beyond) and that is where it gets really scary with heavy rear bar and novice enthusiast driver. Driving a car with heavy rear bar requires very good training and reflexes, especially if the road conditions are not optimal (read: rain, snow, not smooth surface on mountain roads, etc).


It is easy to "upgrade" the car, but how many are up to the task to drive an "upgraded" car?


This post is just so whoever reads here, thinks about the other side of the story. And in case your car surprises you one day, you can't say "Hey, nobody told me so!".....
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Old February 21st, 2007, 18:58   #27
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Good points, Peter. The wagon did surprise me once, on a sandy/icy decreasing radius offramp. But I really can't think of a situation where it has since (that was three years ago). Even on the track it took some playing with tire pressures to get the rear to rotate and keep the front from scrubbing.

But your point is well made. I've driven a lot of oversteering cars, so if something did happen it wouldn't alarm me. But not everyone has delt with swing-axle VW Bugs.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:31   #28
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There is always bump-steer, but that is different, and one can always anticipate it. I never had a problem with over-steering in normal road conditions when pushing the car. I do want to make the suspension more sporty, and remove some of the sway.


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Old February 22nd, 2007, 09:14   #29
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"But not everyone has delt with swing-axle VW Bugs."


I was wondering how bad the oversteer could be with the Shine SB. I'd imagine it could not be anything near as bad as a pre-'68 (swing axle) Bug. I had at least 5 of those and never spun one out.

BTW, my avatar is a picture of the Wolfsburg Crest off of the hood of a '56 ragtop Bug I once owned! (from 1958 - 1962 the Crest was less colorful and 1963 it was discontinued). I had it mounted in the center of the steering wheel of the '85 Jetta TD. Now, I just need to find a mounting location on the '04.

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Old February 22nd, 2007, 09:24   #30
peter pyce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephry
I never had a problem with over-steering in normal road conditions when pushing the car......

The point was for NOT-normal road conditions, which is part of our life. The trouble happens when you do not expect it, when you do not want it, when you are not ready. Race track or autocross is entirely different story, you drive at full concentration, you want the car to rotate, you expect it, you induce it. Slippery road, downhill, sudden weight transfer and a blind curve are amazing ingredients for disaster in a VW with a thick rear bar.


The problem with mods is that everyone who has the money can get them, but not everyone is up to the task to handle the "new" car. The irony is that the stock car everyone is biach-ing about is actually the most forgiving, therefore the easiest to drive and make mistakes with and get away with it. When you modify the car, it gets actually a lot trickier to drive fast, takes more skills and is less forgiving. So, what really happens is folks think they have increased their safety envelope by modifying the suspension, but in realty they have decreased it and in some cases dramatically, but many drive way below the limits of those envelopes - it is all good and the reports are only glowing. The drama begins in panic-at-the-limit-unexpected situation, where many act in way they did not even think about they would/could - the panic way where the subconscious enters, and at that point you need the most forgiveness possible. Modified suspension shows the shortcomings right there, but then no one has the balls to come back and report how their wreck their cars and explain the dynamics of what happened and why.

As for the Shine bar, forgot to mention earlier, there are more than just two broken. I know 3 cars in my area with broken bars, which becomes 4 if I include mine. And this was back in year 02/03. Nationwide would be a lot more than that. Folks just do not post about these things, because everyone is afraid to get blamed/flamed. Dick modified the bosses, which now do not go through the bar, so the "issue" was removed from that specific point, but you all know that something somewhere has to give up sooner or later, so please let's do not think that "problem solved forever". This said, you all can go ahead and put whatever parts you want - money, car, life and time is all yours. My goal is just to bring the other side of the story and make few people think and then make a more educated decision. I made so many mistakes by listening to idiots on these boards and it would be nice if less people make mistakes in the future, otherwise there is no point of having a Club.
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