Ultra Low Sulfer Fuel makes injector pumps fail?

dukelukas · January 15th, 2007, 15:20

My 2000 Jetta won't start. It caughs and sounds like it has startes for a fraction of a second, then it just spins... Took it to the mechanic and they can't figure it out yet. It seems like it might be the injector pump. Do they really fail in less than 100k mi? I read a little about the Ultra low sulfer fuel that has been in pumps since September and people say it has less lubricative properties. Could this make a pump prematurely fail? Should we be using an additive to avoid future problems from the ULS diesel?

n1das · January 15th, 2007, 15:42

Quote:

My 2000 Jetta won't start. It caughs and sounds like it has startes for a fraction of a second, then it just spins...

From your "newbie" status I have to first say Welcome to TDIclub!! There are plenty of people here that can help.

1. Did you check the anti-shudder valve to make sure it's not sticking shut in the closed position? If it's stuck in the closed position, no air will get into the engine, resulting in a no-start condition.

2. Could also be fuel-starved due a leak somewhere and the pump lost its priming. Did you check the clear fuel line between the fuel filter and the injector pump? The fuel line should be full of fuel and not air. It's OK to see a 1/2" to 1" bubble in the line when the engine is stoppped.

Quote:

Took it to the mechanic and they can't figure it out yet. It seems like it might be the injector pump. Do they really fail in less than 100k mi?

The injector pump can last the entire life of the engine provided only uncontaminated and clean DIESEL fuel has been used that meets the ASTM specs for diesel fuel. OTOH, the pump can be ruined in a very short time if severe water contamination occurs (water in fuel) or somebody fueled the car with gasoline or something else by mistake. In the worst case scenario, a pump can be ruined in a matter of minutes. This is why TDIclubbers recommend fueling up only at high-volume truck stops and busy gas stations along major routes...because they do lots of diesel business and the fuel will be the freshest in the region because it's constantly being replaced often.

I don't think your injector pump is bad though. I also think you need to find a mechanic that knows something about TDIs. Don't blame the injector pump until the other obvious stuff has been checked first. The best thing to do is find a TDIclub guru in your area that can help.

Quote:

I read a little about the Ultra low sulfer fuel that has been in pumps since September and people say it has less lubricative properties. Could this make a pump prematurely fail? Should we be using an additive to avoid future problems from the ULS diesel?

I don't think ULSD has anything to do with your no-start/hard-start problem. I've been using ULSD for several months without problems. My 2002 Golf "only" has 237k miles on it and it's still on its original injector pump. And YES, you should be using an additive to help increase lubricity, get rid of any water, and prevent the possibility of future problems, at least until more is known about the long-term effects of ULSD.

Good luck.

blurfocus · January 15th, 2007, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukelukas

My 2000 Jetta won't start. It caughs and sounds like it has startes for a fraction of a second, then it just spins... Took it to the mechanic and they can't figure it out yet. It seems like it might be the injector pump. Do they really fail in less than 100k mi? I read a little about the Ultra low sulfer fuel that has been in pumps since September and people say it has less lubricative properties. Could this make a pump prematurely fail? Should we be using an additive to avoid future problems from the ULS diesel?

You can mix biodiesel with ultra low sulphur diesel to improve its lubricity. Reportedly, as little as 2% biodiesel mixed into ULSD can restore the lubricity to that of high-sulphur diesel.

These links have some useful information. I don't know the answer to your injector pump question. Most of what I've read only talked about problems with non-synthetic hoses and seals (both from ULSD and biodiesel). Your VW shouldn't have any non-synthetic hoses or seals (according to what I've read anyway).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/using_b...arranties.html

dukelukas · January 15th, 2007, 17:45

Thanks for the help. So I need an addative... Which one should I use? As for a mechanic, how do I find a Guru in my area? I have the car at a pretty good place; they specialize in VW's, though they admit themselves that they don't have extensive experience with the TDI's.

I do know that the glow plugs were soaked with fuel. So it seems unlikely that the pump is unprimed from a leak. But an air starved engine (from a stuck shudder valve) would have a lot of fuel in the cylinders, right?

Thanks so much for the help and I'm excited about this forum because I have always had cars (gasoline) that I could fix myself and perhaps with the help of you all I can learn to master the turbo-diesel too...

Joe_Meehan · January 15th, 2007, 17:59

While there has been some information to suggest that there may be an issue, it is far from proof and frankly I don't believe it myself.

I expect many people are going to blame ULSD for all kinds of problems and may well miss many real problems. Don't fall into that trap and don't assume that there is no chance of the problem either. Just do the usual testing and repair. If you then think it was fuel have an independent lab test the old parts.

volks_r_us · January 15th, 2007, 18:00

I use and sale ELF TOTAL

http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produ...ang_1/4011.pdf

40X40 · January 15th, 2007, 18:07

If the shop doesn't have vag-com get it to someone who does. It is
not a ulsd problem, but could be a fuel problem.
Change the fuel filter and check the anti-shudder valve. Vag-com will
tell you if the glow plugs are working.

At the TOP of this page there is a Vag-com list. PM some of the people
there for help.

HTH

Bill

catmandoo · January 15th, 2007, 18:12

are the glow plugs working,been pretty cold out there lately.

gt · January 15th, 2007, 18:42

Bosch recomends Stanadyne, the dealers also sell it, I know you did not want to hear that! I do believe you should run it all the time. I have had to replace pumps as early as 53,000 miles. You should not run diesel & switch to Bio often or you will be replacing seals. I would agree with anti-shudder valve being stuck may be the problem. gt

cage · January 15th, 2007, 18:46

What about ashless 2 cycle oil?
I'm still running old diesel since my station doesn't have ULSD yet but I put lawnboy ashless in every once in a while. It comes in little green cans. I put the whole can in and fillup.
I do it a few times a year but once the ULSD comes out I will do it more often.

n1das · January 15th, 2007, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukelukas

I do know that the glow plugs were soaked with fuel. So it seems unlikely that the pump is unprimed from a leak. But an air starved engine (from a stuck shudder valve) would have a lot of fuel in the cylinders, right?

It sounds like a stuck anti-shudder valve or dead glowplugs. But I see you're in southern CA (Los Angeles) and the weather should be warm enough for the ECU to not need to use the glowplugs before a cold start.

Have you checked the anti-shudder valve to make sure it's not stuck in the closed position and moves freely?

And as others have pointed out, ULSD has nothing to do with your problem.

Good luck.

n1das · January 15th, 2007, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukelukas

As for a mechanic, how do I find a Guru in my area?

Start here by looking in the "Trusted TDI mechanics by state" thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044

Canadian_Grizzly · January 15th, 2007, 19:08

Snakeoil dealers are going to do well in the near future. ULSD has been used for years in other parts of the world. All these additive junkies will flog their snakeoil when this better quality fuel is absolutely fine. Should every post now begin with ULSD killed my pump, Maf, intake, turbo, glowplugs, cam followers etc... I'm just not buyting it!
My 2 cents...

n1das · January 15th, 2007, 19:18

Have a look at this thread to check the anti-shudder valve:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1214327

Good luck.

dukelukas · January 15th, 2007, 20:43

Thanks for all the help. Since there is unanimous opinion that it's not the ULSD, I will stop blaming myself for not using an additive. But I will start using one now, and I promise I will never start another thread blaming the ULSD (though at least it seemed to elicit many responses).

I do not think that it's the glow plugs because it is starting, for about 1 second, before it dies and just cranks over. So it is firing. Then I wait about 15 seconds, try again, and it does the same thing. Starts very briefly, then dies and just cranks (though at what seems like a faster rate, like it has no compression). This strange symptom has been quite repeatable for me and the mechanic.

I do not know if the mechanic where I have it has checked the anti-shudder valve, but I will see to it that he does. I do know that he has the electronic equiptment and has been scanning it for codes, and coming up empty handed.

If it does turn out to be the injector pump, do I really have to pay 900 bucks for a rebuilt one from the dealer? That's what they quoted me....

I drove by the place in my area suggested in the "Trusted TDI mechanic" thread and it didn't look like a place I'd take this car... What do you guys think about dealers??

Thanks again for everybody's helpful comments.