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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:33   #1
mr.mindless
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Default Transmission for >4 cyl TDIs in rear drive?

I'm kicking around the idea of a TDI swap into a midsize pickup.

The only information I'm finding on doing TDI swaps for rear drive or 4x4 applications is with the 1.6 and 1.9 motors using Acme Adapter stuff and 'Yota transmissions. I have no problem with running a Toy transmission - my automatic may have bit the dust and that's why I'm kicking around the idea of this repower in the first place - or at least making changes now that might support a future swap.

I'm much more interested in a 5 cyl or V6 TDI, as I'd have to have a very hopped-up and perhaps "peaky" ALH to match the driveability and reliability of the 235hp/265ft-lb V8 that is in the truck now. Main use is offroading but it sees lots of street miles too.
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SOLD: '02 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI 5sp Sprint 764s, Aligator tune, Atlas skid plate, DG short shift, Nuespeed RSB, ASR ('03 ECU), 20th AE rear brakes, Class III hitch, 205/75r15 Grabber AT2s. Previously: 225/60r16 Blizzaks
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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:49   #2
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The 5 and 6 cylinder TDi engines have the same bolt pattern as the VR6 and the old 5-cylinder gasoline and diesel engines, I know that much for sure.

5-cylinder's probably going to be easier to get a hold of, too. Of course, neither was ever imported into the US, so it's going to have to come from abroad in either case.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 07:38   #3
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thanks! now to find a rear drive VR6 option....

EDIT: of which there unsurprisingly seem to be none. People only seem to put VR6s into VAG cars that are front or AWD using VAG transmissions. humbug... anyone else know of anything?
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SOLD: '02 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI 5sp Sprint 764s, Aligator tune, Atlas skid plate, DG short shift, Nuespeed RSB, ASR ('03 ECU), 20th AE rear brakes, Class III hitch, 205/75r15 Grabber AT2s. Previously: 225/60r16 Blizzaks

Last edited by mr.mindless; January 8th, 2007 at 08:18.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 08:27   #4
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The old Volvo 200 series were RWD, and they have transmissions and bellhousings that will mate up to the VW 5/6 cylinder bolt pattern.

You'd need the bellhousing for a D24 engine, that was the 6-cylinder diesel (That shares a bolt pattern with the five diesel, the 5 TDi, the V6 TDi...)

Edit: And on that note, take a look over at the Volvo 240 TDi thread in this section. Owner's swapping out the transmission, so that may give you some hints on something that will better take the power you want.

Last edited by TurbinePower; January 8th, 2007 at 08:30.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 10:25   #5
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2979430


http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2876938
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Old January 8th, 2007, 10:27   #6
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2583054
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Old January 8th, 2007, 16:03   #7
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Problem with Volvo transmissions is that they are notoriously weak.

If you're looking for something mostly bolt-up, one option might be the volvo M90 transmission. They're expensive, and only avialable only in europe, and only some of them had diesel-friendly 5th gears. Also, some of them had different bolt patterns than others. It will be difficult to sort out which one you need (if any do in fact work), and even harder to find and have one shipped over. But it's a lead

Another option may be to use a Volvo 240 bellhousing that bolts up to the motor, and to get it adapted for a T5. There's a shop online that does this relatively cheaply. But it's not like T5s are particularly strong boxes themselves.

Then you have to worry about the flywheel and the pilot bearing. I don't know if the pilot bearing seat is in the crank on those motors... that could get annoying.

In any case, I'd say there's enough extra work that you're probably better off picking the ideal transmission based on strength, shifter location, availability and cost and getting an adapter made. If you find a box with an input shaft length similar to a corrado, volvo, or whatever rwd bellhousing will bolt up to the motor, the adapter can be skinny and very easy and cheap to make.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 16:43   #8
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Thanks a lot for the bellhousing info, guys. I didn't know about the Volvo bolt pattern and that definitely sounds like the easiest place to start. If I ever go down this road I'll be sure to post up.
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SOLD: '02 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI 5sp Sprint 764s, Aligator tune, Atlas skid plate, DG short shift, Nuespeed RSB, ASR ('03 ECU), 20th AE rear brakes, Class III hitch, 205/75r15 Grabber AT2s. Previously: 225/60r16 Blizzaks
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Old January 11th, 2007, 07:34   #9
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Just a few comments on bolt patterns and bellhousings:

The 4 cyl engines all share the same bolt pattern, but I can't for the life of me think of any RWD application that used them.....EXCEPT..the T3. Using either a T3/45 degree OEM bellhousing or a T3 aftermarket uprights you could then go adapter to T5 or something else common and relatively cheap.

Same applies to the 5 cyl engines. These have a different bolt pattern, and could be found in RSA T3s and the bellhousings are all over the place and set the engine at 15 degrees. Again, you need an adapter. The 924/944/968 bellhousing is another option. Keep in mind that all of the Porsche variants use a rear-mounted gearbox (the one in the link above is a "snail case" 924, one year only and a really bad choice - all others use a stock Audi gearbox).

The V6 TDI is a modular engine and shares the same bolt pattern as the 4.2 V8, so there is not much around to play with (so I am told).

If I were putting a diesel in a mid-sized pickup, a TDI would be about my very last choice (cost related..a 2.5 TDI sells for $6,500 over here). You can pick up an entire Toyota diesel and matching gearbox from mining trucks (diesel land cruiser derrivatives are very common in mining) for a pittance, and Toyota will support them (there were 5 cyls a while back, 6 cyl inlines now). Just find the wrecking yard where they retire them from each mine.

A much easier (but not se easy to find) choice would be the 4.3 GM V6 with corporate small bolt pattern (used in '80s J cars). This is essentially 3/4 of a 5.7, and is actually a very good engine. It bolts directly to any GM corporate small bellhousing, thus trans etc. Same for motor mounts...I THINK (remember, this was a front drive only engine). You need to go the the 5.7 sites to find supplies and support.

http://www.ensindustrial.ca/index.html
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Old January 11th, 2007, 08:33   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Dolan
The V6 TDI is a modular engine and shares the same bolt pattern as the 4.2 V8, so there is not much around to play with (so I am told).
I have been told by at least two importers and a few unaffiliated individuals that the V6 TDi shares the VW/Audi 5-cylinder bolt pattern.
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Old January 11th, 2007, 16:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurbinePower
I have been told by at least two importers and a few unaffiliated individuals that the V6 TDi shares the VW/Audi 5-cylinder bolt pattern.
I want to find the guranteed answer to that question, since we were sold a 2.5/5cyl instead of the 2.5/V6 that we wanted based on that supposed fact. Since I don't have a V6 here to compare, I am sort of at a loss!
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Old January 11th, 2007, 17:07   #12
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A cheaper way to verify the pattern is to order the sheetmetal backing plate for the motors that the trannies are on.
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Old January 11th, 2007, 17:14   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G60ING
A cheaper way to verify the pattern is to order the sheetmetal backing plate for the motors that the trannies are on.
Except that Audis don't usually USE any sheet metal there.
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Old January 11th, 2007, 19:09   #14
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So the v6 tdi shares the same pattern as an audi v8? What about using an audi awd trans and locking (welding) the center diff?
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Old January 12th, 2007, 06:29   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiva
So the v6 tdi shares the same pattern as an audi v8? What about using an audi awd trans and locking (welding) the center diff?
Need to confirm WHICH bolt pattern, but if you were to do that, I think you will find that you can't just "weld the diff", but you would have to machine some kind of hardware to eliminate the center diff. Then, it becomes an issue of putting all of that torque through a drive path that was never meant for constant load (might not matter, might matter a lot). Seems a million times easier (and cheaper - just price out any ONE single part in a V8 or A8 trans...and then try to actually GET it) to just adapt a T5 to a VW bellhousing (if the trans input shaft will reach the clutch).
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