Timing going to 0 in basic settings

Cobra_Steve · January 3rd, 2007, 17:33

Has anyone encountered this? After a timing belt replacement, when trying to check the timing, the measuring block 2 reads close to 55-60 with fuel temp of 110-115. After switching to basic settings, my timing jumps to 0 and obviously the car doesn't like it. If I retard the timing a bit, it won't jump to 0 when switching to basic, but then it seems out of spec. The car also won't reach the 85 (likes to stay at 82) degree mark, but that's a whole other problem at this point.

99.5 Jetta sedan, 5spd w/ 217K miles. Only mods are TDI heater and CAT filter.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

MOGolf · January 3rd, 2007, 17:44

You need to advance the timing not retard it.

Yes, the TDI doesn't fully warm up too quick, and maybe not at all, just idling. Use the TDI Timing Graph function in VAG-COM (assuming you have a version released in the last 4 years). You can check the box near the bottom to say that 80 C is warm enough.

Cobra_Steve · January 3rd, 2007, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOGolf

You need to advance the timing not retard it.

My post might not have been too clear. The timing is set at close to 55-60, not really at 0. VAG-COM says it is 0 when I switch to basic settings...if I switch back, all is well and #2 says around 55-60. It also runs fine when it isn't in basic settings, but as soon as I switch to basic settings, it starts pouring out smoke and running rough. If I switch out of basic, it clears up and runs fine again...so what I meant by having to retard it is that I would have to lower to around 30 in #2 then it doesn't do this "fit" when I switch to basic settings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOGolf

You can check the box near the bottom to say that 80 C is warm enough.

Does this do anything other than clear the "Engine coolant isn't warm enough" message out of that display box?...I've been wondering about that.

MOGolf · January 3rd, 2007, 18:37

You check and set the timing in basic settings mode. Advance the timing and get it running right in basic settings mode.

Checking the box just clears the message.

TDIwise · January 4th, 2007, 11:51

I just got my new vag-com today. I'm also using the latest software downloaded yesterday from the ross-tech site. Over lunch I went and measured my 02 tdi's timing (been having rough cold starts at ~40-45F). I am having the exact same issue with the reading of block 2 in the basic settings mode showing 0. My measurements when not in basic settings mode is block 2 ~ 48 (bounces from 42-51) and block 9 = 120. When I switch to basic settings the glow plug light blinks (manual says this is normal) and I get block 2 = 0 (no bouncing) and block 9 = 120. The engine sound changes but it does not smoke like Cobra_Steve is indicating.

Is there a bug with the new software?

wolfsburg_de · January 4th, 2007, 12:23

It seems like every once in a while this "issue" comes up, where people are checking their timing and find it to be out of spec, so they assume there must be something wrong with VAG-COM.

It is normal for your glowplug light to flash and for your engine note to change when you go into Basic Settings mode since that allows the engine to run at it's true settings (ignoring leaned values). This is akin to removing the vacuum advance line on the distributor in an old gasser.

There is a very fine line in terms of pump adjustment between being in spec and being out of spec. Per conventional wisdom, if you actually see the pump move, then you have moved it too far.

TDIwise · January 4th, 2007, 12:25

Got a response back from ross-tech before anyone responded on the tdiclub. Great service from ross-tech! It's looking like when I had the dealership change my timing belt ~3 months ago they didn't check the timing with their computer. Guess I'll have to do some mechanical advancing of the pump.

wolfsburg_de · January 4th, 2007, 12:31

One other thing to double check. Make sure you have selected the correct engine code. The phrasing can be a bit ambiguous so:

Check the sticker in your driver's door for the build date of your car. If your Mk4 G/J/NB was built before April, 1999 then you should select this choice:

Golf AGR/AHF/ALH >4.99

If your car was built after April, 1999 then you should select this choice:

Golf AGR/AHF/ALH/ASV 4.99>

TDIwise · January 5th, 2007, 05:22

Mechanically adjusted the timing last night and am now in the upper part of the window. As others have said, it doesn't take much movement to change things a lot. Took me 5 adjustments to get it where I wanted it.

Cobra_Steve · January 5th, 2007, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsburg_de

when you go into Basic Settings mode since that allows the engine to run at it's true settings (ignoring leaned values). This is akin to removing the vacuum advance line on the distributor in an old gasser.

Awesome. This is what I was looking for. Turns out that I was reading the instructions for adjustments wrong. When I seen numbers close to what I needed in #2 when not in basic mode I figured I was close. The manual says to adjust the pump one way to advance...I was turning the nut that way, not thinking that the pump is actually rotating opposite in the housing. I was actually retarding it a bit instead of advancing it.

She is running much better now...I appriciate the help guys!!!

jollyGreenGiant · January 5th, 2007, 12:37

Remember, the pump can only advance or retard the timing so much. By setting it to optimum ( slightly advanced ) in Basic Settings you will allow the engine to start much better because the engine may not have collected enough information to make an adjustment on initial startup as the engine essentially starts at Basic Setting and then begins adjusting once it's running under its own power.

Also, if it's adjusted wrong in basic settings you're limiting the range that the ECM can adjust either on the retard or advance side. Yes, the ECM can usually take care of this and the engine will run OK if it's out but as stated above initial start will and outright performance can be effected potentially to a large degree.

wolfsburg_de · January 10th, 2007, 08:26

Just to reiterate, you CANNOT check your timing by looking at the values in group 000 in Measuring Blocks mode. Do not lull yourself into a false sense of security because you find values there that "seem" to be in spec. You MUST be in Basic Settings mode in order to know whether the actual physical timing is in spec, so that you can mechanically adjust it if necessary.

Ricosuave · November 5th, 2008, 15:43

so what should this be set at?

wolfsburg_de · November 6th, 2008, 06:28

Aim for the blue line:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-scope/TDIGraph.html

Ricosuave · November 7th, 2008, 17:06

^ I should clarify. Both my TDI's are rough;y at the blue line, I want to have them closer to the green line.

Where do I make the adjustments, and what values would I put in? By typing the value in the 'timing' box?