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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old December 15th, 2007, 12:04   #346
Sloppy Snood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VWTDIBeetle
Notice who was quoted in my post.
The poster has this vehicle:
'05 Passat TDI GLS Northern Green

This is different than the one in your question.
It is?!??!?

I must be losing it....I thought a 2005 Passat was a B5.5 platform. Please educate me if this is incorrect.

Wikipedia says

"1996-2005. The B5 received a facelift in 2001. The resulting Passats are referred to as B5.5. The B5 Passat borrows its platform from the original A4, resulting in a logintudinal engine placement, which differs from the A platform which have been traditionally transversely mounted. B5 platform cars can be equipped with a multilink front suspension and a Torsen center differential."

and notes

Volkswagen Passat B5 (1996-2001)
Volkswagen Passat B5.5 (2001-2005)



Quote:
Originally Posted by VWTDIBeetle
Statements are based on actual real life experiences.
So do you have a 2005 Passat TDI where the ATF was changed at 109K or not?
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Old December 24th, 2007, 10:42   #347
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Default G70

Linking this to the G70 experience posted by dhdenney: G70 is a noticeable improvement http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=192534
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Old December 24th, 2007, 10:49   #348
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Motul 300 gear oil works fine for my PD. It's a lttle stiff in a cold morning but after a couple of minutes , it is smooth. I am sure it protects the tranny better than the thin factory fluid at higher temps.
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Old December 25th, 2007, 05:21   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri16V
Motul 300 gear oil works fine for my PD. It's a lttle stiff in a cold morning but after a couple of minutes , it is smooth. I am sure it protects the tranny better than the thin factory fluid at higher temps.
But H O W are you "sure" it protects the tranny better?? Thicker goo isn't always better. The synchroniser size and design was calculated to work with the specified fluid... changing that changes the function. I mistakenly got the older G50 fluid and was disappointed with the cold weather operation (and the telltale "groan" when turning). Do tell....

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Old January 5th, 2008, 08:24   #350
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"I do know that VW is doing a bang-up job at taking something that should be very simple -- choosing the correct transmission fluid -- and complicating it with a variety of mysterious and mostly undocumented oils."

Amen, Brother, well put.
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Old January 11th, 2008, 06:23   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyH
(Manual Tranny Fluids)

VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
128 159.0 18.3 = AMSOIL CTL SAE 50 Powershift GL-1
..............16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.6 = VW G50/G51
GL-4
185 90.0 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
..............15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90
GL-5
..............15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
GL-4/-5
..............15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
GL-4/-5
132 116.0 14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90
GL-5
177 84.5 14.7 = AMSOIL MTG 75-90
GL-4
..... 76.6 14.2 = VW G052-911
133 76.2 11.0 = AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift GL-1

183 56.2 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
194 47.1 9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) GL-?

208 41.6 9.1 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid GL-?
198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL CTG SAE 10W Powershift GL-1
..... 31.2 6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 GL-?
..... 35.1 6.4 = VW G-055-726-A2 GL-?
..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) GL-?


So, does anyone have the Vis@40C number for the mineral G52 (G 052 726 A2)?

Is it safe to assume that the mineral and sythetic OEM G52s are truly interchangeable then?

And from these results and this post in general, the most OEM-like aftermarket lubes are: Redline MTL, Amsoil MTF, and Redline D4?
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Old January 11th, 2008, 13:10   #352
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Ok, this is wayyy confusing. From looking at the last chart it seems that
for 02A trannys G052-911 is the best choice, right?
G052-911 is thicker than the other G052s, which are really too thin for the older trannys. But... G052-911 is a tick lighter than G50 so maybe we might see a touch better mileage? G052 is now recommended by VW for the 02A.

Correct?

It seems that from all this debate at least one thing can be gathered and that is that you cannot go wrong with Genuine VW oil. As long as its the correct VW oil for your Tranny.

Qs

1) Still don't know if G052-911 is GL-4 or not or whether it matters.

2) Why are some folks sticking with the old G50 when the G052-911 is a newer VW oil of similar viscosity?

3) Is G052-911 the best for older (1997) 02A trannys or G50?

4) What is the difference between G50 and G052-911?

Last edited by StevenM; January 11th, 2008 at 13:31.
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Old January 11th, 2008, 13:26   #353
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My local VW dealer stocks lots of G50

G052-911 must be special ordered

Service dept. says my 1997 Passat takes G052

If VWs newer oil is G052-911 why don't they stock it?
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Old January 12th, 2008, 13:56   #354
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StevenM, I refilled with G052-911 (2002, 02J-EGR transmission), because I
saw it on some VW fluids charts that were released in the past couple of years ('04 or '05?),
that specified the 911 for the 02J transmission. I had previously refilled mine using Redline
MT90 and had eventually become a bit less-than-satisfied with the shifting.

I was able to get a couple of bottles of 911 from 1stvwparts.com, it wasn't cheap but I'm
sure the price is better than what the local VW dealer would charge. I think it's been about
3 months now, and my syncros seem to work more smoothly now. It took a couple of
months before the shifting really settled down, to fully improve. Larry
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Old January 14th, 2008, 14:34   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyH
Folks,

I'd like to request that we include the year and transmission (especially if not the transmission the car came with when it was born). We're all commenting on how a certain product feels or performs in our car, but this info is basically meaningless with out knowing what the hardware is.

Tied to my first request/comment are these cautions:

- The first choice for any fluid should be one that meets the OEM required specifications and viscosity for your specific piece of equipment.

- Before one can select an alternate product, we must know the OEM requirement. The fluid properties, characteristics, and specifications were based on the engineering of the specific piece of hardware. Different transmissions will probably require different fluids.

Here’s a quick summary of what can happen if we experiment without proper info.

- A gearbox that was being monitored with oil analysis and vibration analysis failed catastrophically
- The gearbox was replaced with a new unit, refilled with fluid, and put on-line
- The replacement gearbox failed after two days of service
- The gearbox failed – twice – because ISO 680 viscosity fluid was used instead of the OEM recommended ISO 320 gear lube

Keep something in mind here – ISO 680 IS a recommended fluid for this gearbox – for a specific range of temperature and duty conditions. This was NOT a case where the operators decided to second-guess the engineers.

You can read the full article from this month’s “Practicing Oil Analysis” magazine on-line at http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=849&relatedbookgroup= OilAnalysis&title=Confirm%20OEM%20Recommendations% 20-%20Replacing%20the%20Problem%20May%20Not%20Remove% 20the%20Problem

Bottom line for us TDIers: Those of us with older cars – with transmissions designed during a time when the industry was using ‘universal’ fluids – should stick with the recommended 75W-90 GL-4 synthetic. If we select a GL-5 fluid, we can expect synchronizer problems from either friction modifiers (slipping) or extreme pressure additives (sticking, corrosion). If we select lower viscosity fluids than recommended (such as G052726A2, Synchromesh, or ATF), we can expect higher rates of wear due to lower film strength – higher wear means more friction, more heat, earlier fluid failure, and shorter seal life. If we select higher viscosity fluids, we can expect a drop in fuel economy, more generated heat because of the extra work required to overcome the resistance of the thicker fluid, stiffer shifting both hot and cold, and sticky synchronizers as a start. We’ll also have increased rates of wear and can have early bearing failure because the heavy fluid can’t get into narrow passages as well as the proper fluid.

The ‘Lesson Learned’ from the Noria / Practicing Oil Analysis article is this: “Recommended lubricants should also be confirmed if in question. Case in point: this gearbox suffered a level of wear that could have been avoided. It is safe to say that much useful life was lost from this unit to this common error. While operating conditions may occasionally warrant the use of a lubricant other than that recommended by the manufacturer, the OEM recommendation should be strongly considered as the starting point. Careful testing and documentation should be conducted prior to making a viscosity change in any piece of equipment.”

“While it is widely understood that using a lubricant too low in viscosity will result in insufficient lubricant film, it is also important to understand that using a lubricant too high in viscosity can produce similar problems. In this case there was an apparent loss of lubricant film due to the reduced oil flow through small passages, which were designed for a lower viscosity lubricant.”

Andy
Well said! But... what do you do if the Manufacturer VW changes it recomended oil/viscosity wildly?

Old recommend for 02A = G50 vis@100c 15.6. Good old GL-4
New VW recommend for 02A = G052-726-A2 vis@100c 6.3 GL rating unclear.

You make perfect sense to me when you say stick with the factory oil and that both too thick and/or too thin can cause damage. Appearantly its not so clear to VW. Or are we merely chasing our tails because VW wishes to consolidate its oils at the possible expense of the longevity of our older trannys?
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Old January 26th, 2008, 10:07   #356
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We need G70 on the chart.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 09:23   #357
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My wife's 04 PD New Beetle has over 12,000 miles on a fill of G 055 726 A2 and shifts very nicely with no grinding during this winter. We'll see how it holds out in the mid-summer heat. So far, so good.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 07:00   #358
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So for a 2001 Jetta TDI 5 speed what is the best VW trans lub, the G52-171-A2 at some $30..0 a liter? For what it is worth 1st and reverse share the same synro., as down shifting can cause a bit of a grind if shifting at too fast a speed when doing so.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 06:08   #359
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I do find that the trans in VW's do not take shifting too fast, you have to shift like an old lady no matter what is in them for lub. They are not a very good trans., that is a for sure.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 08:04   #360
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Sounds like it's out of adjustment. How many miles/kms on it?

I can shift as fast as possible, no issues. My car's not super-modded, but still significantly more than stock.
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