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Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

View Poll Results: Should we be able to remove (Kill) the immobilizer on our cars
No we need it 9 34.62%
Yes the cars belong to us 16 61.54%
Who Cares 0 0%
My VW dosn't have one but I wish it did 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 4th, 2006, 13:28   #1
BudsBug
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Red face A thought about VW Keys and the immobilizer

I keep seeing the immobilizer key issue come up. I have 2 thoughts:

1st Kill the immobilizer!! I wonder if the VAG-COM can disable this monster with some code. I would ask if any of the chippers may have seen a way to do this.
Can we fake it out using a wire that could be tied high, low or switched. If we knew the expected response we should be able to beat it as long as it isn't a code that is generated as a response I would expect a high true or low false of at most a state change IE. low high for a time 1/2 second than low.

2nd Has anyone attempted the remote starter trick whereas you wrap a thin (20-30 gage) wire around the key cylinder 3 times and around a good key 3x to send the code from the known key. This may require drilling out the transponder in the new key or using one of the steel keys with no transponder that people have gotten off of Ebay that wont work on their car and can't be programed.

We need to get a way from the 3 digit $$$.$$ key the cars. At some point will cars will be worth less than a new key for them

Last edited by BudsBug; January 12th, 2006 at 13:02. Reason: try to bold title
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Old January 4th, 2006, 13:55   #2
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The immobilzer itself is in the instrument cluster, so chip tuning the ECM isn't going to solve anything. The immobilzer does check out the ECM to make sure it hasn't changed... swap out an ECM and the immobilizer will kick in until you recode it.

VAG COM can't disable it, there isn't any code you can input to make it bypass.

The problem with hard wiring a key into the dash then becomes any fool with a screw driver can start your car and drive away since the immobilizer wouldn't know the differance.

There are other ways that don't involve GeKo for getting the PIN numbers for immobilizer. People who are selling used FIS clusters are able to reset the odometer back to 0 and pull the PIN number up, so there is a way to do it. If I felt like forking over $550-ish I could purchase software/hardware that would let me pull PIN numbers though the data port on most VW and Audi cars.

IMHO, the current system in place, GeKo, will go down in a flaming class action lawsuit. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 16:57   #3
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Thanks for the info I can't believe in ten to fifteen years a VW gasser more so than a TDI. A set of lost key replace 3 of them will cost more then the book value on the car. So if you have a fire take your keys, I guess
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Old January 4th, 2006, 18:40   #4
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If you have a fire, insurance will pay. If your car gets stolen, insurane will pay. If you have a wreck and somehow your keys get mangled, insurance will pay.

If you lose your keys and never find them, you deserve to have to buy new ones.

Don't be so paranoid, what's your real reason for wanting to get rid of IMMO?
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Old January 4th, 2006, 19:09   #5
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It seems to be a huge revenue stream for VWOA and stealerships at our expense. I killed 1 fob and will replace the fob only that's around $50 I can understand that but the number of folks saying the Stealership want 10 x that for a new key is obscene. I can understand a fair profit but I need to get a product that I can make 1000% profit on thats a good investment!!!
I just want to give the folks needing keys an option. As I see it the alarm will still work so who would know that you could start the car with a lock pick? Btw I don't think most picks would work worth a darn because these keys are really odd ducks.

Last edited by BudsBug; January 4th, 2006 at 19:12.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 05:42   #6
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It was mentioned to me that burying a transponder in the right vecinity behind the ignition may fool the immobilizer enough so as to allow a "normal" key to start the car.
It may be easier to bury just the actual chip if it were removed from the transponder key.
Maybe if someone has an nonfunctioning flip key they would be willing to take it apart and photograph it so as to be able to locate the chip.
Its nice to have the remote but IMO plain key startups would be nice.
Who steals VWs anyways?
Mike P.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 06:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skippytdi
It was mentioned to me that burying a transponder in the right vecinity behind the ignition may fool the immobilizer enough so as to allow a "normal" key to start the car.
It may be easier to bury just the actual chip if it were removed from the transponder key.
Maybe if someone has an nonfunctioning flip key they would be willing to take it apart and photograph it so as to be able to locate the chip.
Its nice to have the remote but IMO plain key startups would be nice.
Who steals VWs anyways?
Mike P.
I seem to remember the immo chip being under the blue and white vw decal.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 08:30   #8
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Buy a 99.5, no Imb
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Old January 5th, 2006, 08:50   #9
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Sure one could dig out the immobilizer chip from a key and place it behind the steering colum trim next to the ignition switch and "fool the immoblizer" into thinking a good key has been used... but I see 2 problems with this... a screw driver become as correct key to allow the engine to run and if you use a different (but correct key) and the immoblizedr gets 2 different signals, it will shut the engine down.

Exxon "Speed Pass" and other type devices can confuse the immobilzer system. Having 2 of the car's keys on the same key ring can cause the immobilizer to shut down.

This is the cost of progress.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 14:57   #10
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penclnck, the lock and tumblers of the ignition switch and key are still required the turn the ign switch. Just like in granpas old 68 pick up. The chip is the electronic part of the immobilizer. I can vouch for it working, read on........

I just bought my 03 in Nov 05. I got 1 key with the the car. No Owners manual, no Valet key or 2nd key fob and remote. If you separate the remote from the key like your changing the battery in the remote, the chip and key are in the same half. For fear of losing my only key or locking it inside the car, it was necessary to get at least 1 backup.

I bought a used key fob & cut key, off of ebay for $28 + shipping, a key blank off ebay for $9 + shipping, and blank Valet key with chip off ebay for $24 + shipping. Shipping in each case was less than $5. (about $72 so far) the key fob from the dealer is about $185, Valet key $65 and you still have to pay the cutting & coding fee. Dealers can't get a key blank to put in the fob should you break or bend the key portion. I removed the cut key and installed the key blank(you'll need a very small punch). My key I got with the car was a Huf, this blank was a Valeo. Both are oem makers. For $43 dollars the dealer cut and attempted to code both keys. the used switchblade key for some reason would not accept recoding. The remote portion worked great though. I just bought the half I needed from the dealer right then since I would have been charged another $43 dollars again for cut & coding had I left and came back later. Total leaving with a cut & coded Valet key, switchblade key/fob and a cut key that works all the locks but won't start the car was $106 and some change. add the earlier $72= $178. less than the dealer key fob price.

A locksmith could do this with the right equipment however there are none in my area so equipped.

I'll take aprt my extra key half to diasect the chip and take pics!
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Old January 5th, 2006, 17:29   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_n_NC
I bought a used key fob & cut key, off of ebay for $28 + shipping, a key blank off ebay for $9 + shipping,
FYI the Immo 3 transpondent is locked after 1st adaptation and cannot be used again in other car, its safe for Immo2 users to get used keys off eBay because they are not locked and can be adapted again. You can get Immo3 transpondent in EU for about 23 plus shipping. The Immobilizer in TDI can be easy disabled without problems, most tuners can do it but its expensive (few hundreds), the Immo light will be ON all the time, but this can be solved as well using Immo emulator which will illuminate light for few seconds and it will look as the Immobilizer is working .
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Old January 5th, 2006, 21:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ele28
FYI the Immo 3 transpondent is locked after 1st adaptation and cannot be used again in other car, its safe for Immo2 users to get used keys off eBay because they are not locked and can be adapted again. .
ele28, How do you know if you have Immo 3 transpondent or Immo 2 transpondent chipped key? Mike n NC
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Old January 5th, 2006, 21:41   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_n_NC
ele28, How do you know if you have Immo 3 transpondent or Immo 2 transpondent chipped key? Mike n NC
Its simple, look at the suffix on remote part #, all remotes with AM at the end (1J0 959 753 AM) are Immo3, remotes with F or T (its Immo3 style remote for Immo 2 cars) are Immo 2. Its another solution to fix Immo3 transpondent, done in the past
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Old January 5th, 2006, 21:49   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penclnck
There are other ways that don't involve GeKo for getting the PIN numbers for immobilizer. People who are selling used FIS clusters are able to reset the odometer back to 0 and pull the PIN number up, so there is a way to do it. If I felt like forking over $550-ish I could purchase software/hardware that would let me pull PIN numbers though the data port on most VW and Audi cars.

IMHO, the current system in place, GeKo, will go down in a flaming class action lawsuit. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.
Its not totally true, if you are thinking about Marcus software, then it works fine with A4 generation and Audi A6, but it wont work on Audi A4, nobody has yet a software to read SKC from crypto data through OBD on Audi A4 from 2002-2005, the same with Jetta 5, the SKC is encrypted in the cluster not like in the A4 Jetta. But everything can be done
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Old January 6th, 2006, 10:21   #15
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I have a paper from when I bought my car to my credit union .This has a 5 digit key number on it the first 2 digits are 00 could this be my SKC my CU required a key number for the paperwork. I hope thats what the number is . If you put in the wrong number to the Vagcom will it kill your key from working as the first thing in the instructions after you log in seems to wipe out all keys from your car if that were to happen would I need to go to the dealer
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