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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old January 4th, 2006, 07:23   #1
pikey
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Default Charge Pressure Control: Positive deviation

Hi, I have a 2002 sharan 1.9tdi 115pd 44k that I have owned from new.If I initially start the car from cold and it is cold and damp outside and I initially pull away hard (foot to the floor)using the turbo the car switches into limp home mode!!!!!!!!
Switching the ignition on an of resets the car and it drives fine. This condition only occurs on very cold days from starts, fine all other times.
It might be my driving but I can slightly more whizz from the turbo when I take my foot of the throttle and change gears.
Plugged into VAG-com and it reports
17965-Charge Pressure Control: Positive deviation
P1557 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A

Is my Turbo giving up?
What is the pressure control valve? how much and is it relatively easy to change on a Sharan?

Any help Appreciated

Pikey
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Old January 5th, 2006, 18:46   #2
v8volvo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikey
I initially start the car from cold and it is cold and damp outside and I initially pull away hard (foot to the floor)using the turbo
DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!! you are going to kill your aluminum-head engine very fast using those kinds of tactics.
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Old January 6th, 2006, 03:28   #3
Cheshire Cat
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Location: the county Palatine of Chester
Fuel Economy: 50+(imp gallon)
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well it's a bit early (mileage) but sounds like sticky vanes have hunt on here plenty of stuff but no you shouldn't need a new turbo just yet, and warm up properly before giving it some welly
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Old February 3rd, 2006, 08:13   #4
2001tdinewbe
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Location: Brandon,Manitoba
Fuel Economy: 60/52/47
Default 17965 Charge control pressure Deviation Positive

I have been getting the code this last 6 weeks. Dieselgus has reset the code 3 times but it keeps coming back. I thaought it started with an over fill at oil change time. Sucked out 1/2 litre of oil cleaned intercooler twice and put in a new air filter. The snow screen is removed so air flow in shouldn't be an issue. Dieselgus ran the VAG-com MAF test for me late in fall to make sure it was working right. I have been faithful in running it up past 4,000RPM once a month to keep the turbo working. I am having the shop do a vacumn test on everything today but it is getting frustrating to drive in limp mode.
Based on the the discussion above it seems to come back to a sticky mechanism but i thought the 4000RPM practice would take care of that??

The whole intake and EGR system was cleaned up 12-18 months ago, last time I ranted on the forum, and Dieselgus reset the EGR so it should stay cleaner.

Any other suggestion to get this code/problem fixed would be appreciated.

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Old February 5th, 2006, 02:21   #5
Cheshire Cat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001tdinewbe
. I have been faithful in running it up past 4,000RPM once a month to keep the turbo working.
Any other suggestion to get this code/problem fixed would be appreciated.

I would have thought once a month was not often enough despite the fact the vanes get some exercise each time you start up and switch off -if they're not sticky already
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Old February 14th, 2006, 18:48   #6
2001tdinewbe
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17965 I soaked the turbo mechanism with deep creep and took the car on a couple long trips, last one 3.5 hours each way. After the first 3.5 hour trip I did a couple of short trips in colder weather, -10C but -25 with the windchill. And lower humidity. The light went out and has stayed out for the past couple days. I know windchill doesn't affect inanimate objects but I wonder whether the cold and lower humidity helped the situation?? Either way the car is running well now and I am happy. If exercising the turbo more than once a month will help prevent this problem from coming back I will gladly run it up to 4000RPM weekly.
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Old September 12th, 2006, 18:01   #7
2001tdinewbe
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Default Charge pressure control: positive deviation 17965

Had this problem occurring again this summer and I isolate the problem to the little one breather valve in the vacumn system. There are 3 large valve controls on the fire wall in the engine compartment(driver's side) by following the vacumn line you will see a small inline valve(looks like an inline filter) Mine is black & White part number 046905291A cost new $69. I cleaned mine by squirting deep creep into the ends and get lots of black crude out now things are fine. Be careful pulling this valve out it can break easily.
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Old September 12th, 2006, 18:32   #8
Bob_Fout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001tdinewbe
I have been getting the code this last 6 weeks. Dieselgus has reset the code 3 times but it keeps coming back. I thaought it started with an over fill at oil change time. Sucked out 1/2 litre of oil cleaned intercooler twice and put in a new air filter. The snow screen is removed so air flow in shouldn't be an issue. Dieselgus ran the VAG-com MAF test for me late in fall to make sure it was working right. I have been faithful in running it up past 4,000RPM once a month to keep the turbo working. I am having the shop do a vacumn test on everything today but it is getting frustrating to drive in limp mode.
Based on the the discussion above it seems to come back to a sticky mechanism but i thought the 4000RPM practice would take care of that??

The whole intake and EGR system was cleaned up 12-18 months ago, last time I ranted on the forum, and Dieselgus reset the EGR so it should stay cleaner.

Any other suggestion to get this code/problem fixed would be appreciated.

Did you creep to 4000 RPM or do it with gusto? Just one gear or multiple gears?
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Old January 15th, 2007, 20:36   #9
2001tdinewbe
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I usually take it to 4000rpms pretty hard in 3 of 5 gears. I wait until it is up to operating temp and pick a section where the turbo exercise won't result in expensive speeding tickets.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 10:16   #10
3800rpmDiesel
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where is the original poster on this topic??? anyway, i had the exact same issue (well, i certainly don't take off from cold like that ) and error code last summer. dealer was telling me my turbo was gone, another shop said same thing, i found another really good mechanic that said the VNT could be sticking - he said he sprays his with some lube at every oil change. sprayed mine with some lube - it's been fine ever since (KNOCK ON WOOD!!!). can of lube spray (can't remember the exact type) is certainly cheaper than a turbo!!!

then of course i run it up to 4000rpms a few times a week (only after car is good and warmed up though) to help things out.....

i'm curious to know what original poster ended up doing?????
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Old January 16th, 2007, 10:47   #11
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mine does that when the boost spikes, clear it it goes away till it spikes and limp mode then reset and all is good
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:28   #12
Jafo
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Default '02 Sharan with random "Positive Deviation"

Hi everybody and thanks for this GREAT forum!
After reading a lot of threads in here I think I know what my problem is.
We bought our '02 Sharan 1,9 TDI PD 115hk in August 2005 but "some" problems has occured.

First day:
AC, that should have been fixed was not fixed (just filled up).
the Tiptronic gearbox went into limp mode.
the car was delivered with 5 seats instead of 7 as the agreement.
Brake pad indicator was on
and lots of other small "bugs"
The Tiptronic limp mode was fixed by replacing a sensor and the other problems was also fixed and payed by the company that sold us the car.

Then in Fabruary '06 the tiptronic started to give up, and by march it was almost undrivable, hard to keep 100 kmt uphill
We ordered a early service at a VW Dealer to diagnose the tiptronic and yes: it was ready for the scrapyard after 117.000 km (only 12000 km after we bought the car) After some "advocate" style letters to the company that sold us the car the gearbox was swapped, all bills, including a rental car, was payed (exept for a small fee)
But the visit to the VW dealer lead to a "callback" (huh, don't know the correct term) where the VW garage said that they had to replace a hose from the turbo (expeces payed by VW).
Got the car back and they can not have test driven it at all.. the hose went off and my wife and neighbour that picked up the car thinked it created a lot of smoke and was very "slow" but didn't tell anything to me before the shop has closed for the day. Next day a Saturday I drove the car to the shop, but of course, first thay of "summer closed in the weekends". so I had to go home again... After some really angry phone calls a mechanic fixed the hose on sunday

So to sum that incident up, the ECU delivered fuel for "onboost" maybe 10 times until the delay before entering limp mode (testing and 2-3 trips to the shop). And the smoke created was *really* thick.
After this incident the car is entering limp mode with the "Positive Deviation" error at random places. I can not go for a drive and "create a error", but I know what kind of "behaviour" that is needed:
Almost cold engine, Medium+ throttle from a standstill usually uphill (typical: entering a road and accelerating "medium fast" up to 60+ kmt).

The VW Dealer has looked into this but has not been able to reproduce the error, and all they are able to do is to hock up the diagnose equpment
(Dont think they even has lifted the bonnet)..

They also says that "This has nothing to to with that loose hose"..

I have also spendt some evenings FnF style with the laptop on the passenger seat and the Vag-com Vag-scope up and showing graphs of the pressure, off course without beeing able to reproduce.. (and this was after some days with limp mode several times a day)
Full throttle has NEVER given this error.
Have some graphs but as long as they dont show the error I don't know if its any use posting them

I think this solution from the Ross-tech faq is the one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross-tech - FAQ
VNT (variable nozzle turbo): nozzles stuck
(due to lots of black smoke when the hose was off)
Any ideas? Anything that can be used to convince the VW Shop that their mistake is causing this?

Regards
Jafo
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