Is the intake a goner?

after all that I did for my fathers car (97 Jetta TDI) this past week, his EGR vacuum actuator is leaking oil out the weephole on the bottom of the dashpot

is there a way to fix this? (and still have functioning EGR)

can the vacuum pot be repaired or replaced without having to buy a new manifold?
or should I just golf tee it, turn down the EGR adaptation in VAG COM and hope that the CEL doent come on?

If the CEL does come on, how much is one of those epsilonian devices if I need one?

Good question, I'd like to know too. The intake sitting on my kitchen counter from a 98 Jetta w/1Z has the same problem... looks like gobs of oil have glurked out over the years. I ordered a replacement intake from Parts Place, it's not here yet but I've learned it won't have a provision for the cooler that attaches to the EGR system... I think I'll be ok with that.

Same part # as yours, BTW.

It's hosed. Plug it with some JB weld, and just leave the hodes connected. No need to golf T it you would get the light either way without the eps device.

gruppe_a said:

Good question, I'd like to know too. The intake sitting on my kitchen counter from a 98 Jetta w/1Z has the same problem... looks like gobs of oil have glurked out over the years. I ordered a replacement intake from Parts Place, it's not here yet but I've learned it won't have a provision for the cooler that attaches to the EGR system... I think I'll be ok with that.

Same part # as yours, BTW.

Click to expand...

Gruppe_a,

How much was the intake from part place? and whats the site name?

THanks!

And Jason,

are you saying I will get a CEL if I plug the hole with JB Weld?

or will I get a CEL if I do nothing and let it slobber?

only way to NOT get a CEL at this point is with an Epsilonian device is that right?

if that is right...how do I contact the mother ship?

See: "Relatively Inexpensive Intake Manifolds"

Here's the thread with all the info:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=124047

First time I called them, they said they were sold out. I called back a couple hours later, spoke to somebody else, and it turned out they DID have them. Found out much later these manifolds lack the cooler hook-up. Hopefully I'll be looking at mine tomorrow...

Aaron, if you plug the vacuum line with a golf T, you WILL get a CEL. If you leave it attached to the EGR, no CEL. Plug the breather hole with JB weld to keep it from weeping. No biggie.

Can I do the same thing on my car, just plug the hole to stop the mess?

compu_85 said:

Can I do the same thing on my car, just plug the hole to stop the mess?

Click to expand...

What's the worst that could happen? Having to replace the EGR? You already need one, anyway. If it triggers a CEL, just drill the JB Weld out of the hole.

Okeedokee!

Bruce,

so I can plug the weep hole with the JBweld, leave the vacuum line attached to the EGR port and even tho the diaphragm has a hole in it and the EGR isnt functioning properly, it will NOT throw a cel?

isnt this hole there so that the diaphragm can displace air as it pulls the EGR open?

well, I will be bringing the JBWeld to my dads on Saturday then. gotta unslobber his 97, it just got cleaned off/out. no need to let it slobber itself again.

and just so I can justify this to my father, how much is one of these manifolds to buy?

if the egr is weeping through the atmosphere hole, plugging the hole will cause pressure to develope behind the diaphram and openning the egr when the egr is openned without the computer's knowing it drasticly reduces the cars ability to perform on any leve. I tried this at the beginning of this last summer. I ended up taking a screw driver and openning the hole back up.

Could sealing this hole cause the EGR valve to open?

If you're going to JB-Weld it, make sure that you have cleaned the hole and the area around it thoroughly to remove any oil residue. Brake cleaning solvent or carburetor cleaner on a wooden-stick cotton swab will do the trick.

I posted on the effects of blocking this hole quite a while back--the only concern that I have with blocking it is this: it is conceivable that doing this will result in the EGR valve partially opening under high-turbo-boost conditions. By blocking this hole, you are sealing off the "atmospheric-pressure" side of the diaphram and connecting it to intake manifold pressure, which will come into this chamber around the EGR valve stem (past the same seal which is leaking the oil).

So now you have intake manifold pressure on one side of the valve diaphram, and on the other side, a spring holding the valve closed. If you seal off the vacuum side of the diaphram, this will effectively increase the spring rate. I haven't run any calculations yet to see if boost pressure is high enough to overcome the spring pressure (anybody care to?). The key is knowing at what vacuum level the valve starts to open (has anybody measured this?).

If you really wanted to make sure that the EGR valve stays closed, you could slightly enlarge the vent hole (instead of sealing it off), and press-fit a small section of steel brake line tubing (use JB weld or Locktite sleeve locker) into the hole, making a hose nipple. Now connect a hose to this nipple and run it to the vacuum side of the EGR valve--this makes the pressure equal on both sides of the diaphram, ensuring that the spring will always keep the valve closed under any level of boost.

Any thoughts?

Ok, Parts Place just called, my intake won't be coming anytime soon... they apparently don't have any. This company is about one clown short of a circus. I'm pretty pissed at the moment.

Growler said:

and just so I can justify this to my father, how much is one of these manifolds to buy?

Click to expand...

Well, if the fine folks at the Tard Place had been able to provide one, the price would have been $229. The dealer price is somewhere in the $400-$500 range.

redmondjp said:

snippage....
If you really wanted to make sure that the EGR valve stays closed, you could slightly enlarge the vent hole (instead of sealing it off), and press-fit a small section of steel brake line tubing (use JB weld or Locktite sleeve locker) into the hole, making a hose nipple. Now connect a hose to this nipple and run it to the vacuum side of the EGR valve--this makes the pressure equal on both sides of the diaphram, ensuring that the spring will always keep the valve closed under any level of boost.

Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

what I think you want happening is you want Manifold (boost) pressure on both sides of the diaphram to keep them equal. altho, the tear in the diaphram might already provide this. what is happening is the oil from the CCV is forcing itself thru the diaphram under boost, causing the slobbering we are seeing.

if we do as you say and put a nipple into the manifold where the vent hole is, and another into the pressure side and connect them via a vacuum type line,
where there is supposed to be vacuum to open the EGR port, there will be boost pressure, I am not sure what that will do to the N2xx valve (not the N75) having the vent hole open to atmosphere I think prevents this problem, however having the vent on the underside is allowing the slobbering...

I am wondering if maybe we leave the system the way it is with the vacuum line hooked up, and the diaphragm torn (assuming the diaphragm is between the manifold part and the vent part...) wherever it is torn open. What I want to do is plug the existing vent hole (JBWeld) and open a new one on the top of the manifold with a drill bit. it will provide as place for the boost pressure to escape like the existing system does, AND allow for the collection of a little bit of oil until it fills the pot to the level of the tear (wherever that may be).

basically I am banking on the chance that the tear is not at the very top of the diaphragm and the oil level will never reach the top vent hole to slobber out.

does this make sense to anyone else?

[pecimist] It will probably just fill up the diaphram, and start slobbering out the top, spraying the gunk onto the underside of the hood [/pecimist]

Is there ever negative pressue on the other side of the diaphram? The gunk probably gets pushed through the hole, and then it kinda seals behind it, because there is always boost behind the diaphram.

-J

One thought I had was to JB weld a tube into the atmosphere hole, and either point it under the car, or filter it... similar to a CCV type device

theres an idea... how about piping it back to the CCV system? the A3 has the 2 pipes coming off the hockey puck.. I bet you could put a nice connection in there and just recycle the oil... not a bad idea...

That is a good idea. AIRC, the line going to the intake side is even under negative pressure! Could you find the right size nipple which would screw into the weep hole on the EGR?

-J

Growler said:

what I think you want happening is you want Manifold (boost) pressure on both sides of the diaphram to keep them equal.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Then the spring, which is on the vacuum side of the diaphram, will always hold the valve closed under all boost levels.

Growler said:

altho, the tear in the diaphram might already provide this. what is happening is the oil from the CCV is forcing itself thru the diaphram under boost, causing the slobbering we are seeing.

Click to expand...

No! The oil is not coming through the diaphram. The oil is leaking from the inside of the manifold, around the valve stem, and into the atmospheric side of the valve, then out the vent hole. The diaphram seals this side from the vacuum chamber on the top of the valve. I'm not saying that the diaphram can't leak, but it's not a factor in this particular situation being discussed.

Growler said:

if we do as you say and put a nipple into the manifold where the vent hole is, and another into the pressure side and connect them via a vacuum type line,
where there is supposed to be vacuum to open the EGR port, there will be boost pressure, I am not sure what that will do to the N2xx valve (not the N75) having the vent hole open to atmosphere I think prevents this problem, however having the vent on the underside is allowing the slobbering...

Click to expand...

You don't have to add a second nipple to the pressure side (I think you meant to say vacuum side--the EGR valve does use vacuum to operate)--use the one that's already there. My instructions are assuming that the ('cough, ahem') valve will be disconnected from its control solenoid and non-functional (hose from control solenoid plugged, or connected to the epsilonian device ). The only way that the valve can remain operational is if the atmospheric side of the valve remains at (or slightly below) atmospheric pressure. But if the valve stem seal is leaking, this will then allow a boost pressure leak (size/amount of leak undetermined). Hmmm, what to do, what to do?

Growler said:

I am wondering if maybe we leave the system the way it is with the vacuum line hooked up, and the diaphragm torn (assuming the diaphragm is between the manifold part and the vent part...) wherever it is torn open. What I want to do is plug the existing vent hole (JBWeld) and open a new one on the top of the manifold with a drill bit. it will provide as place for the boost pressure to escape like the existing system does, AND allow for the collection of a little bit of oil until it fills the pot to the level of the tear (wherever that may be).

Click to expand...

I would not do this--what you are describing is creating a boost leak--you don't want pressure to leak out of your intake manifold at all.

Growler said:

basically I am banking on the chance that the tear is not at the very top of the diaphragm and the oil level will never reach the top vent hole to slobber out.

does this make sense to anyone else?

Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, I don't believe that a torn or leaking diaphram has anything to do with the oil leak. I originally jumped into the discussion because of the possibility that plugging the vent hole could cause the EGR valve to open under high boost levels (which is not desirable).

Oh, cool. That means the answer is, "No, the intake is not a goner..."

Rig up some kind of catch can and you're good!

ok so then the challenge is to find a nipple to connect to the vent hole and to pipe back to the CCV system.

I never thought that the shaft is where the leak would be... I figured it had to be the diaphram... interesting.. in other words, my dads EGR is still working properly, it just has a leaky shaft...hmmm...

I wish I lived with this car so I could experimant... but since I dont, Ill wait till one of you guys come up with a way to do it easily.

I wonder if you could drill out the manifold to accept a small nipple with the manifold on the car... I sure hope so..

Makes perfect sense. And I suggested pulling the hose first then plugging the hole followed by epsing the car to kill the light. Should work for a long long time like that. Or make a diaper for the EGR!

The easiest way that I can think of to add a nipple would be to slightly enlarge the vent hole (by drilling with the proper size drill) and press-fit in a 1" long section of small diameter steel (1/8" dia?) brake line tubing (available at most auto parts stores in various lengths, usually with the flare fittings already on them), using JB weld or Locktite sleevelocker to hold the tube in place (as well as friction).

Drilling out this hole slightly would possible result in some small chips going inside the valve, although if done carefully and slowly, the aluminum may come out of the hole in long chips and not end up inside the valve.

A small piece of brake line tubing is essentially the same as the metal tubes which used to protrude from carburetor bodies for decades, for vacuum tubing attachment. You can also use a tubing flare kit to put a bump on the end of the tube for better hose grip.

The only other way I can think of to easily add a hose nipple would be to drill the vent hole out much larger and tap a 1/8"-27 NPT thread into the hole, as there are many brass fittings available with various sizes of hose nipples on them in this thread size. After drilling and tapping this hole, I would want to blow out the chamber using compressed air to remove all of the metal debris (there is a small possibility that some small chips could get blown past valve stem and into the intake, but I doubt the gap around the stem is really big enough to worry about this).

The EGR on my 98 Jetta will not hold a vacuum. From what I read here, the correct way to fix the problem is to bite the bullet and buy a new or good used one. It seems like several have done some shadetree stuff here but there is not one absolute cure for this. Is that right?

57ringo said:

The EGR on my 98 Jetta will not hold a vacuum. From what I read here, the correct way to fix the problem is to bite the bullet and buy a new or good used one. It seems like several have done some shadetree stuff here but there is not one absolute cure for this. Is that right?

Click to expand...

So in your case, you have a failed diaphram, which is different than the oil leak around the shaft as described in this thread. So yes, if you want to maintain the operation of your EGR valve, you will have to purchase a whole intake manifold.

If you search this site for 'EGR' you will come up with other options, for off-road use only .

I just want a daily driver.

57ringo said:

The EGR on my 98 Jetta will not hold a vacuum. From what I read here, the correct way to fix the problem is to bite the bullet and buy a new or good used one. It seems like several have done some shadetree stuff here but there is not one absolute cure for this. Is that right?

Click to expand...

This is exactly how mine responded. Attached a mityvac - nice vacuum leak until I started to open the valve manually. After about 1/8 inch, the valve sucked full open. There was a trail of oil down the manifold from the weep hole, and a CEL from the inoperative EGR.

I ran about 20,000 miles with no CEL by using the VagCom EGR adaptation.

Andy