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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old November 14th, 2005, 19:15   #1
RabbitGTDJoe
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Default Building m-TDI 1z; Machined pistons back...PICS

Well...breaking it down and am ready to go. I'm building a 1z block back up and was going to send in the stock pistons (1z) to swaintech for a top and side coating to help with heat dissapation through the piston, as well..hopefully taking that "care step" in keeping their strength under high boost/more fuel. The plan. I'll be using a plenum style intake manifold I've been working on as well as a DI specific modified mechanical injection pump with a 12mm head. Might end up at 11mm if I don't like it. Haven't concreted my decision on the nozzles yet, but it'll be something larger to support all that fuel. My question...or rather concern in doing some digging into the forums regarding pistons.
What are the inherent weaknesses in the 1z pistons? Will my steps with SwainTech help as a safety against failure? I'd hate to be running 20+psi of boost on this nicely rebuilt motor only to toast a piston. The coating will go a long way but I'm interested in the piston design itself between the 1z and ALH/later models. Are they made stronger? If someone could help it would be great. I was going to send them in this week but am going to do some more digging and see what you guys have to say.

Joe

Last edited by RabbitGTDJoe; January 14th, 2006 at 19:27. Reason: Updates....
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Old November 14th, 2005, 19:26   #2
AntonUK
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Joe you dont want to use the 1z pistons if your going to spend money on coating them. The design are very similar if not identical (im not sure) as the rest of the tdi's but If I was you get hold of some AFN or any A4 tdi pistons as they are stronger. Des has been through the 1z pistons a few times and uses the afn/a4 pistons now.
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Old November 15th, 2005, 03:45   #3
RabbitGTDJoe
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LOL. Thats what I was afraid of... Maybe I'll be able to find another for this ALH set i'm getting ahold of . I'd like to know the design differences between the two though. What makes one stronger than the other. If I had one in hand I'd be able to tell I'm sure but I don't as of yet. The set I can get would be a pretty good deal, but then...i'd have to find one more to make the set complete...
Also...anyone know if the 1z and the later motors share the same OEM rings? Or did they switch rings when they went to the updated pistons as well?

Joe

Last edited by RabbitGTDJoe; November 15th, 2005 at 03:48.
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Old November 15th, 2005, 04:09   #4
therabbittree
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Joe,
The later model 98 jetta thru 2002-03 tdi pistons in the usa ..have brass trunions for the piston pins supports, and the ring lands are beefier. I forgot but either the older all cast aluminum tdi pistons like in 96-97 passat (like yours) the ring land is lower..the new ones the ring land is raised up to help emissions....any how the later tdi pistons ...98 was first year with em here..are beefy!!! you can clearly see a big 'ol difference when you look at em side by side. I have to see, if I still have a old set laying around. I definately have new sets most of em have a scored piston or two..or valves in the though ha.. Simon Cooper has pic of the bigger transporter pistons, He used to use, on his website...they are the same construction as the ones I'm talking about. ie brass trunions, bigger ring lands, reinforced etc...
Come on tell em the truth you'll be running 30-40 psi on your little hotrod... 20 psi is for stocker 1.6Ls..ha
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Old November 15th, 2005, 07:18   #5
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OK...truth had it. 25-30 will be the initial run on this motor. I am building it strong, thus the asking of questions regarding the integrity of the pistons. Now what i wonder is if the piston rings are the same between the two types of pistons. I just got new rings for the 1z pistons for a killer price compared to what the dealer wants. Now...might have to get "others" again. I see Vanamania on ebay sells the "newer" style pistons for 500 a set with rings. Might be an option if I can sell off the rings i have and the 1z pistons. Anyone know the story on the rings though because I do have access to buy a set of 3 good ALH pistons and would just have to find one more. Deo...if you had 1 or 2 good pistons laying around of the newer design I'd be interested in the one. Let me know.

Now...about the rings...

Joe
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Old November 15th, 2005, 09:38   #6
mojogoes
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Joe if your doing what you say you are i'd do what simon did/has done with his 1Z motor and which is now mine , yes use the 2.0L pistons but then you will have to have some shortened rods and while your at it have them hardened then you'll need to do a bore for the pistons as well.

Turbobuilder does the cams when he has time i've heard and head job race ware bolts job done , should be good for 40psi at around 17.3.1.
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Old November 15th, 2005, 16:42   #7
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Hmm... I had consider the van pistons...but the price and avaiablity is an issue for me. I think I'm going to try and locate a good set of ALH pistons and go that route. I'd love to toy with that in the future though. Block rebore...shortened rods, man...i bet that motor rocks. By the way...how'd you end up with it and what is he running now?

Joe
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Old November 16th, 2005, 00:26   #8
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He's running the 2.0L 16v pd motor and aiming for over 300hp with a holset hx35 turbo , head job and larger nozzles.

This is the reason i've ended up with this motor but its not running at the mo , and it will be the first time its been ran with a ecu/electronic pump setup.

I have some pictures somewhere of Simon's engine but i have to find my printer/scanner software disc first to post , looks very impresive.
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Old November 16th, 2005, 02:56   #9
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WOW...now that is impressive Intially with this motor like i said...i think my target peak boost will be at MAX 30 psi...more than likely i'll run around a healthy 25psi. Should be plenty with this motor in an MK1 chassis. However, in the future, i may be inspired

Joe
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Old November 16th, 2005, 17:58   #10
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Joe you will need to run at least headstuds with that much boost on a 1Z. They dont handle boost as well as A4 blocks.
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Old November 16th, 2005, 19:30   #11
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I always do head studs on my motors... and Raceware is the only way to go. I may also be doing main studs as well as rod bolts if i'm inclined to go away from stock...but needless to say...the racewares are already here.

Joe
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Old November 17th, 2005, 01:24   #12
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I've tried high boost in a 1z , after a few head gaskets I backed off my boost levels . Studs would help the head gasket failures but watch out for too much stress on the rods in you go with studs .
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Old November 17th, 2005, 05:11   #13
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only problem is the van pistons were about $1000 bucks..last i priced them..if they are cheaper it would be ok..
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Old November 17th, 2005, 07:03   #14
RabbitGTDJoe
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i agree with Deo on that one. It'd be great if on this side of the pond we could easily access the van pistons...but for the price. Man, i'd go and by a PD to swap in rather than going with the van pistons. Would be nice though if they were more friendly on the pocket book.

As far as studs, head gasket failures, etc. I probably will lower compression slightly on the motor. And boost...boost will be relative to what the Rabbit will like, etc. In other words...an insane amount is useless if I can't put it to the ground. I'll find my medium. I like the idea of 25 psi where I was before Comfortable. and fast...


Joe
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Old November 17th, 2005, 10:40   #15
mojogoes
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I've ran 24/25psi in the engine i had b4 but not for long periods of course and it held together and no studs but it may well have in time , and a large fmic helps big time here.
If when it comes to mapping my setup its under fueled which it could be i will probably use a methanol/water injection into the intake and i now someone who has/can map it in viera the ecu , a programme which allows for any other fuel which has been added by other means........around the 20+% region and an N20 map.
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