Black smoke and lots of it

Ok I have a question that I couldn't find on any other posts.
I have on 02 jetta with a k&n filter and 216 nozzles and no other mods. Ever since I put The new nozzle tips in, the car smokes like crazy when I hit the go pedal hard. I can leave lines of soot on the pavement when I take off. I love the extra power, but the black smoke is a little embarasing.
Is there a way To reduce the smoke? If I can't reduce the smoke, am I harming anthing from the extra soot such as the EGR, intake, or turbo? I appreciate any resonse. I enjoy the site very much. There is a lot of info here

its because you are overfueled - tdi tuning is a balance of fueling, timing, and boost from the turbo (among other factors).

Whether your car is a manual or auto will also effect how much smoke can be cleared up. There are a fews ways to clean up the smoke to a lesser or greater degree..

1 - adjust IQ (intake quantity) setting in VagCom (but this will rob power because you are cutting down fueling)

2- get a chip tuner involved (like rocketchip for example) right now your car still has fueling maps and timing for stock nozzles. Your turbo is dumping boost and you aren't getting all that fuel burned up and so it comes out as soot. A chip that's programmed to "know" you have bigger nozzles and run a little more boost will help a lot.

3 - get a bigger turbo - our stock turbos on these things are teeny weeny. A lot of kids are putting turbos from Euro "variants" of this engine like the PD150. Again this will allow you to run more boost but you will also need a chip and its a fairly involved little project (not huge but involved).

BTW - the fuel pump on a manual is 10mm and 11mm on an auto tranny. So.. .216's on an auto tranny push even more fuel than a manual. So if you have an auto tranny, just a chip will not completely clear up your smoke.

4. I had 216's on my other wise stock auto tranny 2002 jetta and something that really helped with smoke was running Biodiesel. Running B100 significantly cut down soot since it is a higher quality fuel (IMO) than pump diesel. The car sounds happier running it too (it just does).

---------

B100 will help considerably in the meantime - but a chip tuner can really help long term (also make it even faster).

My jetta is has a manual trans

No way you should be smoking like that with just "216" nozzles and a stock chip. With SPRINT 764 nozzles you should have zero smoke. Something is really wrong.

I have a feeling you were smoking before the nozzle upgrade.. Like Kerma said, you shouldn't be smoking that much with just a nozzle upgrade. Have you checked/cleaned the EGR/Intake?

Also, are you sure the nozzles are seated properly? Did you use new OEM sealing washers when the nozzles were installed? If not, I'd look at that for a reason why you are smoking so much. I am running .205's with a Amsoil drop in, I get a bit of smoke, but only when I am way up in the rpm range...

Hi! Welcome aboard! Like Pdxgrease said, check your setting, or have somebody check them for you. I have seen countless tdi's with waaaaay retarded timing and extremely low IQ's running fine. Then when you add the nozzles or chip, instant smokescreen! I suggest checking\adjusting the IQ(injection quantity), Checking\adjusting the pump timing(in tdi timing-basic settings), and finally, if these dont reduce smoke enough, check the engine basic timing at the belt and make certain it is perfect.

I personally have had this problem after rc3 and 764's and a bevy of adjustments improved things tremendously. However, I have an older car so the heavy smoke is still there beyond 1\2 throttle. Yours might still haze after 1\2 throttle, but it should not leave soot tracks! That is over the edge for sure.

See if you can have someone near you check it with you (two opinions are better than one). This should be a matter of some simple adjustments. Keep us aprised!

What MrChill said...

As well... Are you really in love with that K&N filter ???

Although there are some diehard fans around here, most would recommend you go back to the stock air filter... the K&N is believed to help MAFs die prematurely...

When you find someone with a Vag-Com (to change the settings), have them also run some MAF tests to see if it may be going...

All the best,

Yuri.

I have a feeling you were smoking before the nozzle upgrade.. Like Kerma said, you shouldn't be smoking that much with just a nozzle upgrade. Have you checked/cleaned the EGR/Intake?

Also, are you sure the nozzles are seated properly? Did you use new OEM sealing washers when the nozzles were installed? If not, I'd look at that for a reason why you are smoking so much. I am running .205's with a Amsoil drop in, I get a bit of smoke, but only when I am way up in the rpm range...

Click to expand...

With Sprint 520 or even POWERPLUS 520 and a stock chip (5-speed) there should be ZERO visible black smoke. Maybe a haze in the headlights at night but that's it . "205" or even "216" nozzles should not smoke at all with a 5-speed and stock mapping. If you have a lot of smoke under throttle, then there is something else going on or defective or improperly installed nozzles.

Chipped or remapped is another matter. But stock programming and SPRINT 520 or SPRINT 764 or POWERPLUS 520 should not smoke at all.

Agreed. I'm running Sprint764 nozzles on the stock program in my 01 and there is never a point where I'm getting smoke constantly. I get a puff on shifts, that's it. Something is not right.

--Matt

Ok, I will start by making sure the injecters are seated properly. I will find someone to check the timing and IQ settings and test the maf sensor. I will also check the intake and egr valve. If all else fails, I will purchase different nozzles. What should The timing and IQ be set at? Will a dirty intake or egr cause black smoke? Thanks everybody for your help. I will keep you updated

Do you still have the EGR in stock form?

At a minimum, you have to do the adaptation change (see TDIFAQ).

Wrong injection timing and dirty intake manifold can certainly cause black smoke.

where did you get the nozzles ? Are they from Kerma?

No I didn't get them from Kerma.
I got them from tdiracing.com they seemed like a quality product but I haven't seen any posts about that seller. they cost about $140 for 4 nozzles. I haven't had the car too long, I am going to assume the EGR is stock. If I can find a VAG COM. Does anybody know what the setting I should set the parameters at, knowing what my situation is. I am amazed at all the responses. Everyone seems to help everyone even a newbie. I work on heavy duty diesel engines every day and I am finding out that a TDI is a totaly different creature

Are you SURE that you got the right washers? Some folks include ones that are a hint oversized that do not let the injectors seat into the block in the right way. As a result the spray is fouled and you end up with a lot of fuel going down the tube into the cat. Result... lotsa smoke.

Before you pull the injectors make sure you have a new set of washers. Call up Kerma and order a few sets to have on hand. He can send you the right ones seeing as he is the undisputed king of injectors.

No I didn't get them from Kerma.
I got them from tdiracing.com they seemed like a quality product but I haven't seen any posts about that seller. they cost about $140 for 4 nozzles. I haven't had the car too long, I am going to assume the EGR is stock. If I can find a VAG COM. Does anybody know what the setting I should set the parameters at, knowing what my situation is. I am amazed at all the responses. Everyone seems to help everyone even a newbie. I work on heavy duty diesel engines every day and I am finding out that a TDI is a totaly different creature

Click to expand...

To bad you didn't come here before ordering the nozzles TDI Racing was once on this site....doesn't come here to often anymore, lol..

Anyhow.. go to your local VW dealer and pick up some OEM sealing washers. No need to order something like that because they are so cheap. Shouldn't take you more then 30mins to an hour to swap them out. It will give you peace of mind that the washers aren't causing the problems.. Wingnut has a stickie around here somewhere entitled (Do you smoke with bigger holes) in his thread he is refering to the non OEM sealing washers not doing their job...

Good luck man, make sure to pick up some spare fuel return line also as, you never know when you'll break some of that stuff when taking out your injectors.

I orderd some washers from VW yesterday, I have plenty of return hose laying around. VW didn't have the washers in stock so they had to order them for $0.67 a piece. hopefully they will show up early next week

Well......... I installed the VW washers today. I am still getting the smoke. I found a pop tester at work and pop tested all the nozzles. All the pressures were ok but the spray pattern was different for each nozzle. It looks like me and Kerma will be doing buisness soon.

just a quick note about when I put in my PP nozzles in my A3. at first my Jetta Smoked like a train , of course on hard throttle with all that power, but after about two weeks or so the smoke went away, after I tweaked IQ during that time but went back to stock IQ setting in the end. they do need a little time to break in. BUT it sounds like you got some BUM nozzles.
Good luck
Eric B.

P.S. I still got my PP w/ injectors even though I dont have my car anymore.

I just put in a set of sprint764's from KERMA. The smoke went away and the power went up. Thanks KERMA and thanks everybody else for your help. I am going to put the car on the dyno to see how much power I gained versus the tdiracing nozzles. Thanks again

I'm thinking this is a stage coach influx from people who have lets say bought a lesser grade of nozzle , but i must admit your not charged any extra for the smoke and they do smoke didn't they MOFO .

captinphildo, glad to here those nozzled worked out for you. Ever get those dynos? Also, have you noticed anything else with your stock+764's like temperature or boost changes?

The Cap'n can fill us in on he details...

Phil knows the particulars, max numbers, etc. You can see where the IAT starts to cut back the fuel about 3200 rpm...

Smoke pic before...

I can see where someone might think "216 injectors" are for "race only"...

Smoke pic after...

But here are the same "size" injectors (SPRINT 764)

Personally I think the smoke is kind of sexy. Something James Bond would use.

lol, or tailgaters!

Thanks for putting up the results KERMA.
That is exactly what I was talking about earlier in this thread. KERMA schooled me in injector quality. The smoke went away. You can still see in the the after picture that the soot stained the floor. When I showed up two weeks later, the mark on the floor was still there. I do miss the smoke a little, it did come in handy for tailgaters and I did feel like James Bond a few times, but I think I got a lot more laughs than beautiful european women. I had to put a no smoking sticker above the tailpipe just to be a hypocrite and to make people think that I actualy wanted it to smoke. I dont think anyone gets the joke anymore when there isn't any smoke.

mojogoes said:

I'm thinking this is a stage coach influx from people who have lets say bought a lesser grade of nozzle , but i must admit your not charged any extra for the smoke and they do smoke didn't they MOFO .

Click to expand...

Those TDI racing nozzles smoked beyond belief.
It was funny at first but after a couple of months I got sick of having to wash the tailgate every other day. The b.216's Ive got in now are much better. I'll be investing in some R520's not too far down the line so I can see what all this kerma fuss is about

Kerma,
Because the PP520's put out more power than standard .216, are the PP520's therefore harder on the engine, produce more EGT heat, etc.
I've been told by some that .216's are too big for my car for those reasons and I should only put PP520's in there. But you mention that the PP520's produce more power but are smaller .205?
I saw that you ship to Canada and since I have to pull one of my injectors to fix a leak, I'm contimplating trying another set of nozzles for chitz and giggles. But I don't want to increase stress on me engine (yet).

If you look at the pics, the "same size" injector makes less smoke and more power. Smoke output can roughly correlate with EGT in some cases.

PP520 in your car will actually be safer because it will make less smoke = less EGT. AND more power than what's in there now. You will see the difference right away.