speedometer and trip comuter error

H8-I270

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Location
Smithsburg, Maryland
We just picked up a 06 Jetta TDI pkg2 a few weeks ago. I noticed the speedo on the test drive and verified (by the old fashion stop watch and mile markers) that the speedo is off by at least 4mph. When I asked the dealer about it at my 5k service, he told me that he had emailed VWofA and was waiting on an answer. That I was 1 of 3 owners asking about it. I'm going to try the climatronic trick and going to get my gps out of my fishing boat to verify speed 100% before I go "yelling" at VW. This forum has been very helpful. I am thinking about getting a VAG-Com to adjust my MAF.

Thanks,
Mike
 

Lightflyer1

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Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Yell all you want. This is an old topic here and many have complained in the past and sounds like it probably won't get fixed. Do a search and read all about it here.

It seems to be a question of acceptable error and how that is defined and by who.
 

BLKMGK

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2006
It also seems to be worse on some cars than others. When it's bad enough for folks who aren't "car people" to notice then it's BAD. IMO - yell and keep yelling. Complain to NHTSA too. This appears to be an INTENTIONAL error in the cluster - as such it CAN be fixed if they decide to....
 

Chainring

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Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta Pkg 2 with 17" Visions
GPS says that we are only going 75 mph at an indicated 80 mph on a 2006 Jetta. That amount of error seems high to me. I was worried about odometer error but reading this thread seems to indicate that the odometer is closer to accurate.

Tim, I'm still not sure what the climatronic trick accomplishes. Where does the speed show up when this is attempted? Sorry. New here and only had the car for about 4 weeks. So far the best MPG we've seen is 40. I absolutely love the car, though.
 

BLKMGK

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Make sure you aren't basing your MPG on the computer display, our's is like 13+% off. The climatronic should show you true speed vs the modified speed displayed on the speedo'. Our car is a package #1 but mine is coming 32 so I hope to be able to test this myself.
 

Chainring

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta Pkg 2 with 17" Visions
Did the climatronic trick today. Speed is dead on with the climatronic. What else does the climatronic display?
 

buckeye96

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta ?
yea, I have noticed that above 60 my speedo starts to have an error. Below 60 and it is within 1 or 2 mph. And above 85 it seems to be pretty accurate as well. We did the "testing" on the way to Florida with the GPS
 

Chainring

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta Pkg 2 with 17" Visions
So I took the Jetta in today for the 5000 mile service and told the stealership that the rear defrost had a couple bad elements and that the speedometer was off 5mph and that I had verified that with the climatronic and a GPS.

When I picked the car up they had annotated that they could find nothing wrong with the rear defrost (even though you can visually see the defect in the two elements I mentioned) and they had also annotated that the climatronic only showed average speed of the trip, not actual speed. Well I was pretty upset about this and proceeded to give the service guy an earful, who just stood there like a minimum wager who could give a s**t. Finally I go to my car and the tech had opened my owner's manual up and highlighted (with a pink highlighter!) the part in the owner's manual about the trip computer function that showed average speed of the trip. Talk about being livid! I went back in with my manual and thanked the guy for pointing out what a moron I was for mistaking my climatronic for the MFI. I gave the guy quite an earful before finally walking out. Again, he just stood there and looked like he could care less. My worst fear has been realized. I love the car, but I'm going to have to deal with people who don't know about the car and obviously don't care about it or their customers. Sorry, still fuming 5 hours later.
 

shaark92

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Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Location
Erath County, Texas
TDI
06 Jetta, manual. '12 Jetta, DSG
Chain,

Due to a SNAFU in the processing of my bank's draft .... late registration ... no plates ... I dropped by my dealership (which has, so far, been pretty helpfull ... but I've not had some of the issues posted here).

I'd previously emailed the salesman, the lead tech, & the "resident German" (their title for him) about the Climatronic feature. None of 'em were aware.

When I stopped by, I had the opportunity to take the salesman for a ride up the street to get an extended dealer tag ... showed him. He couldn't believe it. Returning from the office to the showroom (about 2 blocks away), he took me to the tech (who seemed to care less, "10% error") & then to the "german," who took a greater interest ... he even grabbed the keys to a Climatronic Passat to try it. I don't recall the results there ... but we discussed the Jetta TDI for a good little bit. He was about to take a trip to Germany & said he'd investigate more on this speedometer issue & report back. That was last week.

Anyhow ... in my future encounters ... I'll keep in mind what appears to be typical poor service from the dealer. This one charges $70 for an oil change. Seems kinda steep.

(apologize for the brief rabbit chase)

Al
 

FJG

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Location
Henderson, NV
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, Pkg 2
Speedo off because of 17" rims?

I read the posts about speedo being off and verified with the climatronic method talked about earlier. I guess this is one of those things where ignorance was bliss. Now that I know, it bugs the heck out of me to be off by that much!

I did a test at 15, 20, 25, ..., 80mph, and found out it is not a 5 mph bias, but rather the speedo seems to display a percentage higher than actual. (about 2mph at the lower speeds, ramping up to 5mph at higher speeds, around 80mph indicated.)

Remebering back to my younger days when I put different size winter tires on my car, that speedo was inaccurate, now giving me an epiphany...

Doing a rough calculation of 16" vs 17", the ratio is ~94%. Multiplying this by the MPH indicated on my Jetta gave me a pretty close match to the MPH climatronic numbers, for the range of speeds I measured. Sounded like an oversight by VW to update for 17" rims, right? :)

Wrong! My 17" tires cover more ground for each rotation vs. the 16" tires, so my true MPH should be higher than indicated, if it was based on tire RPM. The error we see is in the opposite direction, true MPH is lower than indicated... :mad:

Out of this investigation, I wonder if there is a tweak somewhere in the VW computer that allows for tire size change due to its effect on the speedo. Maybe we could use that to fix the error. Any ideas on where to find it? Is it accessible with VAG COM?
 

BLKMGK

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2006
If the Climatronic is ACCURATE and the speedo not then the issue isn't tire size or anything of the sort but rather an innaccurate gauge or dash software. My car will be here end of month so I can compare it with our other that has 16s to see how they compare. Our car with 16s is fairly far off <sigh>
 

SpamJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Location
Cable, MN
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2002 Silver
Two answers.

One short
One long

Get a Scangauge and you will have accurate speeds and can set it for mileage.

Car and Driver article.



Speedometer Scandal!

Can you trust your most frequently consulted gauge?

BY FRANK MARKUS
April 2002

Regular readers have probably noticed that when we describe a vehicle that really gets our juices flowing, we tend to hyperbolize about the accuracy and precision with which the steering wheel and pedals communicate exactly what is happening down where the rubber meets the road. It has recently come to our attention, however, that many of the cars we like best are surprisingly inaccurate about reporting the velocity with which the road is passing beneath the tires. Or, to put it another way, speedometers lie.

Yes, ladies and germs, we are scooping 20/20 and 60 Minutes with this scandal: Speedometers Lie! Okay, "exaggerate" may state it more aptly, if less provocatively.

When traveling at a true 70 mph, as indicated by our highly precise Datron optical fifth-wheel equipment, the average speedometer (based on more than 200 road-tested vehicles) reads 71.37 mph. Wait, wait! Before you roll your eyes and turn the page, let us dig just a bit deeper and reveal some dirt.

Sorted by price, luxury cars are the least accurate, and cars costing less than $20,000 are the most accurate. By category, sports cars indicate higher speeds than sedans or trucks. Cars built in Europe exaggerate more than Japanese cars, which in turn fib more than North American ones. And by manufacturer, GM's domestic products are the most accurate, and BMW's are the least accurate by far. One other trend: Only 13 of our 200 test speedos registered below true 70 mph, and only three of those were below 69 mph, while 90 vehicles indicated higher than 71 mph. Are our cars trying to keep us out of traffic court?
To understand, let's first study the speedometer. In the good old days, plastic gears in the transmission spun a cable that turned a magnet, which imparted a rotational force to a metal cup attached to the needle. A return spring countered this force. Worn gears, kinked or improperly lubed cables, tired springs, vibrations, and countless other variables could affect these mechanical units.
But today, nearly all speedometers are controlled electronically. Typically, they are driven by either the vehicle's wheel-speed sensors or, more commonly, by a "variable reluctance magnetic sensor" reading the speed of the passing teeth on a gear in the transmission. The sine-wave signal generated is converted to speed by a computer, and a stepper motor moves the needle with digital accuracy.
Variations in tire size and inflation levels are the sources of error these days. Normal wear and underinflation reduce the diameter of the tire, causing it to spin faster and produce an artificially high reading. From full tread depth to baldness, speeds can vary by up to about two percent, or 1.4 mph at 70 mph. Lowering tire pressure 5 psi, or carrying a heavy load on the drive axle, can result in about half that difference. Overinflation or oversize tires slow down the speedometer. All our speed measurements were made on cars with new stock tires correctly inflated, but one might expect a manufacturer to account for wear and to bias the speed a bit low; results suggest that not to be the case.
So we sought out the rule book to find out just how much accuracy is mandated. In the U.S., manufacturers voluntarily follow the standard set by the Society of Automotive Engineers, J1226, which is pretty lax. To begin with, manufacturers are afforded the latitude to aim for within plus-or-minus two percent of absolute accuracy or to introduce bias to read high on a sliding scale of from minus-one to plus-three percent at low speeds to zero to plus-four percent above 55 mph. And those percentages are not of actual speed but rather a percentage of the total speed range indicated on the dial. So the four-percent allowable range on an 85-mph speedometer is 3.4 mph, and the acceptable range on a 150-mph speedometer is 6.0 mph.

But wait, there's more. Driving in arctic or desert climates? You're allowed another plus-or-minus two percent near the extremes of 20-to-130-degrees Fahrenheit, and yet another plus-or-minus one percent if the gauge was ever exposed to minus-40 to plus-185 F. Alternator acting up? Take another plus-or-minus one percent if the operating voltage strays two volts above or below the normal rating. Tire error is excluded from the above, and odometer accuracy is more tightly controlled to plus-or-minus four percent of actual mileage.
The European regulation, ECE-R 39, is more concise, stating essentially that the speed indicated must never be lower than the true speed or higher by more than one-tenth of true speed plus four kilometers per hour (79.5 mph at a true 70). Never low. Not even if somebody swaps a big set of 285/35R-18s for stock 255/45R-16s. There's your explanation of high-reading European speedometers, with the highest readings on Porsches and BMWs that are most likely to lure owners inclined to fool with tire sizes. Of course, only the speedometer must conform. Trip computers are free to report average speed honestly. Try setting your BMW or Porsche cruise control and then resetting the average-speed function. Unless you've screwed up the tires, the trip computer should show a nearly accurate reading. Even General Motors, whose domestic speedometers are the best, must skew its readings slightly high on vehicles exported to Europe.
So there you have it: the raw, unvarnished truth about speedometers, laid bare without the underhanded aid of secret pyrotechnics. Readjust your comfortable indicated cruising speeds accordingly.
 
Joined
May 14, 2006
I'm sure mine must be like that too. In my old Taurus I'd go 105 km/h and didn't get passed much... but since I've gotten the Jetta I've been doing 110 km/h and getting passed left and right.
 

DieselDavid

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
Maryland
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDI 6M, 2015 Golf SEL TDI DSG
Speeding and tickets

Over the course of several decades of driving, I've noticed that we are more likely to receive a ticket from the police for speeding when we are going significantly faster than most of the other drivers rather than when we are going significantly faster than the posted speed limit. In other words if we are speeding but we still blend into the flow with everybody else who is also speeding then we are probably okay - but when we stick out like a sore thumb because we are going faster than everybody else or because traffic is sparse then we are more likely to receive a ticket from the police for speeding. Of course my rule of thumb fails on roads with those automated speed cameras!
 

RErway

Active member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Location
Bennet, Nebraska (S.E. of Lincoln)
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, DSG, Blue, Pkg.2, Spoiler
I am soon to adjust via VAG-COM the error in the MPG indicated on the MFD.

The channel 3 "adjustment" I understand can be up to 115 (from the factory default of 100).

MrK said:
Being a numbers guy, it appears to me that the formula for determining the correct adjustment is (indicated/actual)*100.
My recent 5 tanks:

(47.0 indicated / 40.5 actual) *100 = 116, so will set channel 3 to the max at 115.

To those that have done it - does the math work as above?:confused:

OR

I've read that some divide the other way, as in
(40.5 actual / 47.0 indicated) = 0.86, so they set channel 3 to 114.

Either way, 115 should be really close for me...:)
 
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Tim Birney

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Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Location
Dearborn Heights, MI
TDI
05.5 TDI
VW (VWOA) has two, count 'em, 2 TSBs on the speedo error. The result is a large error on the Odometer, with a minor change to the Speedometer error.
I recommend that you skip the TSB fix(es).
The MFI(MFD/MFA) trip computer error is whacked, and I gave up on it. I use nothing but pen and paper to figure my mileage, and the MFI gives me relative readings, which I ignore. I use the fuel gauge, and the Trip OD to mentally figure my MPGs until I re-fuel. Usually I am within 1 MPG of what I perceived as real MPG.
 

luminous

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Location
Texas
TDI
A5 2006.5 Jetta TDI, pkg 2, Reflex Silver, DSG, rear spoiler, 17" Vision wheels, tire pressure monitoring
Tim, I just read your instructions for determining actual MPH using the climatronic. I can't wait to try it out tomorrow! Thanks for a solution to this problem. How in the world did you figure out this procedure?
 

Tim Birney

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Location
Dearborn Heights, MI
TDI
05.5 TDI
luminous said:
Tim, I just read your instructions for determining actual MPH using the climatronic. I can't wait to try it out tomorrow! Thanks for a solution to this problem. How in the world did you figure out this procedure?
The Climatronic Speed was figured out a long time ago, and I have forgotten who posted it first.
I am just sharing it with this post.
You can visit the VWVortex, and search on Climatronic, and see that there are many things that it will tell you.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
TDIinRI and I did the Speedo and MFA fixes last night. Now the speedometer reads very slightly high compared to the A4 cars (which I know have about a 3 MPH error). At an indicated 70 MPH (5-speed) the engine is turning just under 2400 RPM, at 80 it's at 2700, and at 3000 I was going 88-89. That is within a MPH or so of the A4. Much better. I don't know if the MFA fix is working yet as I haven't driven through a tank of fuel and probably won't for a while. However, it was reading about 10% high (indicated 44.3 on my last fill and I actually got 39.5) and I moved the setting to 114.
 

DavidG

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Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Location
Southern NH
TDI
None now
RErway said:
I am soon to adjust via VAG-COM the error in the MPG indicated on the MFD.

The channel 3 "adjustment" I understand can be up to 115 (from the factory default of 100).



My recent 5 tanks:

(47.0 indicated / 40.5 actual) *100 = 116, so will set channel 3 to the max at 115.

To those that have done it - does the math work as above?:confused:

OR

I've read that some divide the other way, as in
(40.5 actual / 47.0 indicated) = 0.86, so they set channel 3 to 114.

Either way, 115 should be really close for me...:)
I set mine to 114. It's fairly accurate if I run D2 only. Some times I'll run ~B5 and the it reads low i.e. if it read 52 the pen and paper is 54.
 

BLKMGK

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2006
What did you do to fix the Speedo' exactly? I know VAG-COM can do the MPG and have done that on the woman's car (and will on mine) but I've not heard of a "fix" for speedo' error. Her's needs it BAD but mine is pretty close <shrug> If I can do it via VAG-COM on her's to get the speedo accurate I'd be VERY happy indeed as would she! I'd been told it was an issue with the cluster and not fixable but now have heard there's a TSB on it....

Oh and her MPG was adjusted to 114 also but as it's breaking in I may need to adjust it back the other way, she is occasionally beating the calculated MPG now...
 

Tim Birney

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Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Location
Dearborn Heights, MI
TDI
05.5 TDI
Tim Birney said:
VW (VWOA) has two, count 'em, 2 TSBs on the speedo error. The result is a large error on the Odometer, with a minor change to the Speedometer error.
I recommend that you skip the TSB fix(es).
The MFI(MFD/MFA) trip computer error is whacked, and I gave up on it. I use nothing but pen and paper to figure my mileage, and the MFI gives me relative readings, which I ignore. I use the fuel gauge, and the Trip OD to mentally figure my MPGs until I re-fuel. Usually I am within 1 MPG of what I perceived as real MPG.
The Speedometer fix is not accurate enough to bother with. Note the bold Odometer note above.
(the odometer will under report 4.5 miles for every 150 miles driven)
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Tim Birney said:
The Speedometer fix is not accurate enough to bother with. Note the bold Odometer note above.
(the odometer will under report 4.5 miles for every 150 miles driven)
I'm nor sure what you mean by 'not accurate enough.' The fix got my speedo to read almost exactly the same as my A4. I'd rather have the speedo closer to right and have the odometer 3% pessimistic. I don't particularly rely on the odometer so 3% is no biggie. It's certainly better (to me) than having the speedometer 8% optimistic.
 
Last edited:

Tim Birney

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05.5 TDI
IndigoBlueWagon said:
I'm nor sure what you mean by 'not accurate enough.' The fix got my speedo to read almost exactly the same as my A4. I'd rather have the speedo closer to right and have the odometer 3% pessimistic. I don't particularly rely on the odometer so 3% is no biggie. It's certainly better (to me) than having the speedometer 8% optimistic.
Quite simple.
My B5.5 Passat is dead on in all three areas, Trip Computer, Speedometer, and Odometer. If VW would fix all three of these, as a unit, on the A5 Jetta, then we would all be happy. Currently the A5 Odometer is right on, and messing with the MFI/Trip computer, and/or the Speedometer fix only alters the overall combination of the three components, resulting in erroneous reporting of MPGs, miles driven, and the speedometer is still incorrect.
 

RErway

Active member
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May 21, 2006
Location
Bennet, Nebraska (S.E. of Lincoln)
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, DSG, Blue, Pkg.2, Spoiler
Tim Birney said:
Quite simple.
messing with the MFI/Trip computer, and/or the Speedometer fix only alters the overall combination of the three components
Do you think, then, that JUST adjusting the MPG error (on the MFD via VAG-COM) messes up the ODOMETER?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I see what you mean. So we have to choose. Now I have an odometer that reads low but a speedometer that's consistent with my other cars. That works better for me. But I can understand how this is frustrating to others.

MFD adjustments do not affect the speedo or odo.
 

Tim Birney

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Dec 14, 2005
Location
Dearborn Heights, MI
TDI
05.5 TDI
IndigoBlueWagon said:
I see what you mean. So we have to choose. Now I have an odometer that reads low but a speedometer that's consistent with my other cars. That works better for me. But I can understand how this is frustrating to others.

MFD adjustments do not affect the speedo or odo.
Adjusting my MFI to 114 Had the surprising result of fewer (actual) MPGs, and an MFI that was still off by 2 or more MPGs per tank.
Setting the MFI back to the original 100 setting brought my actual MPGs back in line, hence the remark about modifying the MFI.

 
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BLKMGK

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2006
This doesn't make sense to me. On our TDI that has the screwy speedo it's accurate until we get up to highway speeds. Verified this a dozen times with GPS and at speeds up to about 40MPH or so it matches with my Jetta and my TDI is accurate to like 80MPH or so by my GPS. So... what fix is it that makes it accurate EVERYWHERE but hoses the Odo?! Is the Odo then accurate only part of the time? This makes no sense to me. What exactly does this "fix" do? Sounds more like the snow tire sillyness some people suggested than a real "fix"...

Oh, adjusting our MFI did nothing to actual MPG, can't see how it would..
 
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